[5:26] ..." ever ever I and I was just going to ask you about Bobby Jenks it was a great closer during the --"...

[5:32] ..." Obviously had -- Bobby Jenks not that we would need people use and in that we would've won that first of all nobody has yet to recognize what do. What a great job this kid has done is a rookie comes and it takes over as closer. And and we go the World Series and he is standing up and policy pressure late in games and we won the world championship. Last year we don't do anything unless we got Bobby Jenks this year we don't do anything unless we got Bobby Jenks. He has been this later this part of this club the last four years."...

[6:34] ..." Well Jermaine Dye is system now starting swing the bat -- died last year you know if we don't want to division Leicester you'd probably have been in VP. That's how good you hit 44 month over -- 120. Jamaica has little and I am when they elevator I'm not talking about against mediocre pitches he's the best that we got against good pitching. And that meant means a lot when you're trying to win world World Series in the seventh eighth and ninth inning Jermaine Dye his office and and he just has not found it so far because it probably -- the -- getting better now he's"...

[11:19] ..." power arms you talked about. Mike mcdougal and those guys you know Bobby Jenks in my bedroom at -- and we get Boone Logan we got some power arms. So it not that the bullpen it would went up by two you know soft tossing out"...

[14:11] ..." bullpen. And we learned about frontline pitching when Pedro and Schilling and Derek Lowe were all pitching so well that kind of thing. I think you were talking earlier in this conversation more about what --"...

[0:00]" Joining us now on the phones Red Sox legend and current White Sox executive and broadcaster Ken hawk Harrelson -- John Wallach and Bob -- in Boston good afternoon LO got to tell you do it. Well I guess the first question I should ask you is what has happened to your team in a scant two years' time."

[0:16]" That you're talking wrong there was rampant like. How serious this is beyond description it's at that point we passed that point probably about a month ago. And assists everybody is walking out you know trying to. Try to get a semblance of sanity back because of you know just -- unbelievable strip club does good go this bad all."

[0:39]" What teaches about the White Sox just to this extent when the Red Sox won the World Series -- 4 -- they pretty much dismantle that team over two year period they took two steps backwards and now this year people think maybe they're stepping forward again. What did the White Sox do after O five did they just get players who are under performing or did they change the roster a lot."

[0:59]" No they can't trust quite a bit but Lester we have actually we had a better club pin and almost six that we did five. But you know I never realized fact -- of one of only two living people Red Sox World Series White Sox World Series. That I never realized we played in 67 in -- the World Series seven games the cardinals. Boston or a lot of difference of playing in World Series and winning and playing World Series and losing. And there's a huge difference. And act as Lester Kenny Williams who to me as the best don't manager certainly an American -- out that a judge rules all of baseball beauty. He'd he'd just put a club to get alas it was best problem urban. As a player and now 31 years it was just remarkable and a -- have a -- Wednesday it just what matter. And we you don't have a killer instinct you're playing a division like we are in America it which is tough division maybe ever. Baseball that if you don't have a killer has figured out we have and that's what have we won many games -- future but that would be good enough. So -- we had a good club this year coming out of spring training everything looked good except -- starting pitching. You mean inning was awesome the bullpen was -- starting pitcher really shaky. Now we start this season. The hitting goes -- starting pitching jumps up and does great bullpen does great if we get to may the bullpen goes out it is still so -- pitches getting better it is just one of those trials nobody saw this coming."

[2:41]" Well I think it has something to do with that when you talk about the division being a very difficult division at the margin for error there is so slight that it really good team can lose a lot of games simply because of the competition level."

[2:55]" All you can do that you know you're going to beat up on each other like we wanted to Cleveland and we just gave them a second game we should have swept swept them. That Indians are really good ballclub and you've got Detroit -- his best team in the American league you guessed her right there that I I think the Detroit probably two to be because they want to the World Series Leicester in the -- did not we have and so low -- They want to go back and they want when. And there's a lot of motivation there and and sports when you get to a level like. The Red Sox are and the Yankees in this in the east division and -- goes simple -- we got. You get teams so there's really solid. You have four teams that can beat anybody any seven game series that you that you can't there's a market for."

[3:43]" I I've I watched the White Sox slide age you have played and I've seen some of the things that Ozzie Guillen said in the press and sometimes -- I would say the majority of the time win a manager's openly critical of his players and the team goes south. More often than not the manager gets fired that's not the case here is it because the competition is so tough they it's obvious that general manages not holding on holding -- responsible. Because he still has a job is that the reason why."

[4:13]" Well as part of it but no obvious I think it to me I wouldn't trade -- for anybody the open all of -- and baseball and -- and a couple weeks ago. And lose a great match. You know there's nobody -- not overlook I would I would trade of view and he agrees but Atlantic series ago. Bodies if Ozzie is he is going to is going to manages -- able to manage and and that's what Kenny is going to do because the fact that. Is -- football club around not -- The only thing -- pick it up open has been so bad you can't believe. I mean for the last two months we have been so bad in today's game -- I've been in this game long time. In the last 50 years of biggest change. In baseball has -- When I played ball there was like of people call you with guys blow a good -- one bad you know. And every Kelly brought to -- available and the guy I was really struggling to that is not the case stated. If you don't have a good bullpen I don't get up reduced orders capital offenses you cannot we -- go to the bullpen that our bullpen has been the worst bullpen out of nervously."

[5:24]" Really ever ever I and I was just going to ask you about Bobby Jenks it was a great closer during the --"

[5:32]" Obviously had -- Bobby Jenks not that we would need people use and in that we would've won that first of all nobody has yet to recognize what do. What a great job this kid has done is a rookie comes and it takes over as closer. And and we go the World Series and he is standing up and policy pressure late in games and we won the world championship. Last year we don't do anything unless we got Bobby Jenks this year we don't do anything unless we got Bobby Jenks. He has been this later this part of this club the last four years."

[6:05]" of the listeners are aware to -- look at the numbers in the bullpen for the white sacks this year you have seven different guys with the IRA's over six. And that I think speaks to your point but. I'm wondered as we approach the at trading deadline -- the White Sox -- to be sellers is Jermaine -- going to be moved as Mark -- found a home there with his new contractor is he still possible I also wanted to -- this -- reported in today's Providence journal said the Red Sox and White Sox have been talking about a trade for Jermaine --"

[6:34]" Well Jermaine Dye is system now starting swing the bat -- died last year you know if we don't want to division Leicester you'd probably have been in VP. That's how good you hit 44 month over -- 120. Jamaica has little and I am when they elevator I'm not talking about against mediocre pitches he's the best that we got against good pitching. And that meant means a lot when you're trying to win world World Series in the seventh eighth and ninth inning Jermaine Dye his office and and he just has not found it so far because it probably -- the -- getting better now he's he's almost on a percent healthy. So he's starting to swing the bat -- short compact again. I don't know what they're what the deal is going to be a sport I trust. Kenny Williams implicit I mean he the first -- manager of -- well. But I trust his judgment in -- I mean he is so good he's put a team not here every series misses some of your. Excuse me. It -- team -- there. Every year there's been better and this year things is just -- He understands that he's blaming himself which you shouldn't do because nobody that said nobody saw this coming"

[7:46]" you mentioned Kenny Williams decision making. He made a decision to sign Mark burly lefty in the prime of his career to a four year contract I guess with a trade kicker they can make it five years at 15 million dollars per but. There are a lot of continuous negotiations up but until then what can you tell us from kind of an insider's point of view as to how close the White Sox came to losing Mark --"

[8:06]" Well I don't know because that I don't talk to Kenny about his business we talk about baseball sure but that'll talked about -- that -- one time just. Cringe every -- I think about it. That anybody is two things that -- I have in my life apart about based well. First -- all I've never seen a player you couldn't eat that number one number two if anybody is somebody in unconditional no trade contract ago. Is just that. What no trade deal has become as a -- for agents as solid support for agents. If they try to get the notre ideal because they know it is in fact the global trade -- three years now that player the client. It is going to get another christmas but that's -- golf. And is going to be an expensive as well so that's all that that is I don't think part necessarily want to -- trade -- conditional like that. That they -- I'll get into just that simple I'll point."

[9:07]" What kind of fight there is in the days left in the White Sox 14 and a half games out of first place behind three very good teams in the same division what kind of fight are they going to put up against the Red Sox this weekend and the rest of the way."

[9:22]" Well if you don't want judge you might get swept -- some awful good story which I'd say that except except when we play Austin our regrets about."

[9:34]" Really Alia is that I'm still does that that we don't know all blues almost week I'm just going to sit does that come through money or dipping his I think this. That was going to see tomorrow and."

[9:44]" I now I I want to Red Sox the White Sox this week well and then after we leave I want to win every game. That's just back to have tremendous feeling in the -- emotion for. When you guys want to know for a -- what I don't sit there watching and then excuse me and I in my life I had tears and it's been so happy."

[10:04]" What and he talked about the White Sox pitching in how and how it's been pretty good obviously -- Vasquez has been pretty good what does happen to Jose Contreras."

[10:13]" He lost some velocity on the fastball he's birdies you know he's mid -- or started off season was on the mid 90s and now that he's healthy. He's only when he was first part of the year in maple leaves one night I saw an 8990. So you're talking about drop -- often are you talking about six inches off his fastball. A lot of guess they'll square that went up when they don't square up via that if one night now vessels much."

[10:41]" Are we likely to see an overhaul Chicago do you think I mean there's some age most of the starters are up over 30 years old and they in the starting line up there's certainly some made in the pitching staff as well do you think that that's what's going to happen a major overhaul in Chicago because. I always feel like teams have to compete with the teams in their division first and foremost if you start off a step and a half behind. Minnesota Cleveland and Detroit I would think the White Sox have a lot of work to do."

[11:09]" Louisville there's no question about it is that here's here's the kicker. The talent that we have in our bullpen is bad as has been the worst -- it was the talent is there we've got power arms you talked about. Mike mcdougal and those guys you know Bobby Jenks in my bedroom at -- and we get Boone Logan we got some power arms. So it not that the bullpen it would went up by two you know soft tossing out there -- kind of -- That's not capable these guys just have not strikes they'd come and we have at least two couldn't -- I mean and we have an 11 to lead. We scored nine runs basically. Opposite sitting at 11 to lead in dumped on what. But now we get tonight and Abbott has were so tight you couldn't pull least the other we probably want to give 11 details"

[12:04]" I had a nickel for race -- we love having you want we really do about. About the Red Sox and you know good you know the culture of Red Sox fans as well the Sox -- little bit Kohlberg at the last ten games or so they've lost seven of their last ten. The Yankees have won seven and a last and and all of a sudden double digit lead is now down to seven and that is. Incurred some panic in Red Sox nation what is your opinion of the American league eastern division race."

[12:34]" Well the Red Sox -- better teams in the -- That in -- you don't win because that's all I remember 1978. We had a -- it's not appear at the all star break the table for the all star break were planning Cleveland Rick Wilson goes now. And the reason we had 14 and a half game lead over the Yankees was because of pitching indeed when because the office. And that was a good Yankee ballclub and it was an outstanding -- the ball and it is about a couple -- of the first one Olson went down. They've brought in frank -- that broke the rhythm of the beast it's all the sudden the pitchers -- pitch in 225 its plate they go back to pitch in the 12. 13 -- And Yankees get got healthy came back and then it was Boston massacre would expires started bodies well we started bodies well last they have these that game of that series -- never -- first and by the way never recover either. So we yet in the playoffs we had to win seven out of lastly I think was tickets play now it is on October 1 and of course that was. The same respect you get home. That no the Yankees are not as good as the Red Sox -- that does not mean that they can make some moves whenever. And get better that the Red Sox have that the best pitching to -- best starting pitching. -- hours is close which together epic level. And it's starting --"

[14:02]" You talked earlier in this conversation about the difference between winning and losing a World Series -- around here. You know four I think we learned a little bit about the importance of the bullpen. And we learned about frontline pitching when Pedro and Schilling and Derek Lowe were all pitching so well that kind of thing. I think you were talking earlier in this conversation more about what -- mental toughness and what it takes to fight your way through in that makes the difference. But if you to clarify that what. Is the difference maker in a short series assuming the Red Sox make to the post seasons as is as constituted do they have what it takes days to go all the way again."

[14:38]" Our thanks I would go to guys have been there and and I have asked many many -- who have -- home multiple world championship to. Why is it so tough to repeat. And they all came back with the same thing the children's. For some reason you know you get guys that you want to world championship like you guessed in -- we -- You get guys that big contracts and make a lot of money. And they've made a lot of money but it picked up as well. And the killer is not there they tried our best tried just like your Estrada no fly. I got side -- six. They didn't quit and Pakistan but it just wasn't there. And that is the difference you know particularly you know you that you're you thumbing your fault for -- again you know that little thing that that little space in there that we always say. Just missed by that much. Well you know within that much the -- Wednesday. That's what's in that much if you don't have -- your plan against teams that do did you go -- is susceptible. You have got to find ways to cut constantly motivate yourself Michael Jordan I used play a lot of -- the other night talk face try to. -- sort of speak. And Michael can you do this I can do it every day you know get them last week like all aspects in you're able statements well. He's just -- by the -- remotely. And it just because the Red -- that -- in the flat -- we didn't -- in the -- again did not mean that we did not try we get it. We just could not have the killer instinct in sometimes you just cannot summon up the it's not like turning on lights on at all and nobody has a definitive answer that because he did you could put it down written format make more money you could ever spent. If you that they had like a -- the impression she is this she's not enough close."

[16:34]" That's that's a good point via I guess than I should ask you where is the White Sox mindset heading into this four game series with the Red Sox right now."

[16:43]" Big we want to win every game because as well knows -- good there impair our our players are where we stand standings way we have performed this year. They indication they. You know it's not a question of blaming the general manager the manager. The pitching coach the hitting coach coaches is not sometimes it goes beyond and doesn't want most sometimes you gotta blame the players. And it's almost time. You gotta blame the players and our players have not -- it's just that simple they have worked asphalt they've tried it but the timing and it's just as not to come to -- Now if if this is a kind of we're starting to come back and come out again. We should be here we on this we we got 11 they wrote finishing -- 48 we've played seven games warm Baltimore. And quickly and we or three -- we should be six and which should be six and once will -- a stage where dangerous ballclub where like -- like guy who he does not and yet they got him out. All of a sudden he gets it second hand or you missed the ball wanted to you know and now I gotta get up that you -- you principle that's what that's what. You get a -- without coming in those -- mr. Because we might becoming out possesses I'd start swing the bat well. Konerko likely -- since June 1 got tommies swinging the bat well we don't have a lot of speed because those guys got hurt does that make in and Erstad event Charlotte they might come back this weekend. One of the big -- we lost it means so much our ballclub. -- hit it you know it's. -- he means so much he he helped our ballclub so many ways it speeds bases they bases. But -- down by -- hit money and filling up for guys the energy brings we haven't had that because nobody fractured -- but no we're dangerous club right now. We were to get cotton. It -- a lot of ball games. I don't think we're gonna debate opposite as we get three teams real good we have viable it was just one it might be different like 78 club you know with. The Yankees haven't over the red. But when you get three fumble and in my opinion destroy is the team to be in all of baseball then we probably get to which dangerous."

[19:07]" I Ken hawk Harrelson will be looking forward to a scene nothing's cannot over the next four days."

[19:11]" Well at least we're hoping that -- because won every game."

[19:15]" But not least for -- at least. At least for our I thank you very much at stake as I appreciated it that is the one and only hawk Harrelson and he's worth every second"