Joe Finder, Author

" Welcome back it's our number three Dennis and Callahan to -- in the studio is acclaimed author -- offender Joseph as you probably knows the author of several. Critically acclaimed best -- including paranoia. Killer instinct and power play his new book just out is called banished already on the New York Times. Best sellers list of the -- joins us in the used to -- is --"

" Well the private spy thing is is is relevant I mean to the real well delegates will get to that a little bit but but nick -- a special kind of yeah private guy a private."

" All right that he's he's my -- is the first -- done a series book you know one continuing character and I didn't wanna do private I didn't wanna do an FBI wanted to do something different. So why I was talking to his old CIA guys amusement learned that there is this whole new profession of the private spot. These guys were trained in the CIA they -- private. And during the same stuff. For companies have more -- countries a lot more money and for the CIA and the working in the private sector is this Finley does."

" As the black warrior. -- and obviously you try and get killed -- those those guys and concern that I was -- enough and in doing blah -- enough knew nothing to your black what kind of dark. Suspicious big private security company that you know only at. Likes to cut people's eyes so yeah is that but that's fine. But."

" Yeah Alexa this is you know vanished is a as like I think of it is like one of those seventies conspiracy paranoid conspiracy thrillers you know what is -- in Hollywood and seven. And so it had to be -- Washington and then Mike what is a better villain and accountable."

" Yeah it's wasn't very then. If this guys wasn't -- I mean I used to like to do research you've that you talk to this first you get in touch with a C I a guy I mean you just used yellow yellow pages -- you know yeah sponsor us. I'm not willing to talk to."

" Yet the truth is. So I I was recruited the CIA long time are. I was planning dubious line poll found out that actually it's not as exciting news that -- you know it's like being -- insurance agent not that there's anything so. Anyway ice that are this is not career for me I decided to write about it but I knew all these people on the CI. And I've known them over the years and they talked to me and because I'm writing fiction they will tell me things they want to -- the never -- report. In Texas in yeah I never use their names and did not know cinema free book what are -- out of it to you know what people love to talk but what they do yeah. And a lot of these guys were doing really secret stuff want to. Tell someone in the Safeway that's not gonna blow -- you know blow their cover or get them in trouble. So that's where I learned all kinds of great -- up an appointment books what about this."

" game. That you did like communion in elective that the issue with the phone -- the -- smart pastor or. Meet you said well it's all -- the deal was -- years -- day in office work."

" Yeah look so. The problem is before I went to Langley I was thinking I was thinking. That working the as a CIA operative was going to be like Robert Ludlum yeah okay where the base -- give -- respect passports and the block. So we get there they go to his cubicle and Jimmy translating Soviet economic journals from Russian English. And they can where's the clock."

" So you actually did this I I was recruited to -- decided against. Doing and how old were you at this point I was like in my early twenties and we you from here and I've been here since. 11. You've been in the Boston area and that is there's we're we're it was quicktime and we go to in this Medford Malden -- puts Ahmed --"

" Although small beholden to -- in the Padilla but from my past but to reach a note the writing -- you check is returned those multiple high school really look like the Altamont lunatics ticker at. I'm no problem okay -- does the Mercedes eskolaste AMT relief at 604 horsepower yet if it does and and the crappy as navigation system in the world absolutely I. I would do an hour."

" I noticed as I was I was up in Hollywood I'd worked on some fancy deal that -- it's really fancy car yeah thing here is the top line Mercedes right. And I spent an hour and half program Hollywood -- it didn't recognize you know that Hollywood was actually part of Los Angeles it's the worst system in the world yes -- So it's."

" And wouldn't you know you made it as a as -- other than this difference of one -- first in studio appearances. This is -- into the pinnacle the other."

" Really this show. Well that's -- Harlan Harlan says and he and it's true when you guys called me up last five. I'm sitting in my office -- my own business solves in the phone rings -- pick it up and on the there. Callahan at the woke -- I I think -- more books on them is that right and any other nationals so our eyes so you're -- you're speicher did not. Coincide with with -- caller's. You want to -- right I wanted to be nick Telus electorate -- on the hot right. Bruce who the guy so he's a guy whose private and he kind of Dick he can no throw the bodies are buried in Washington and it. Is that he you know he's tough go into that it is -- of that yet also the interesting thing is. He was raised really rich. In his father was like Bernie made. Okay and one day when -- executed his father disappears. Pamela goes totally broke. And -- nick is sort of nick moves from this state in different Bedford New York. To display any split level ranch you know in -- and on. This hole has turned upside down and he's gonna -- in the dark side. Money big money and politics Wisconsin. And knows he knows where the bodies are buried."

" That was a great twist by having your in the burning -- very timely am assumed he worked on the -- before burning way before that the fan asked them in this evil old guy was that your other than director he's in -- Yeah he could -- gun battle."

" In fact. One more -- yeah and and it was a reference to his father said I could smell the code -- fog of his body odor. I don't know I don't know I could smell the goat -- on a studio his body -- we have to smoke again -- I remember thinking that one thing you know let's look at -- sympathetic at. Populate other we'd like."

" Mr. Dennis looking at that Dennis lane toll is what was a most of the cab and limo sales outside the park plaza. Writing his first novel in O'Neal and his right and I'm waiting for some. -- those Arab Sheikh to come around in his limo yeah. And obviously he didn't make it until there was a long while I don't know quite awhile after the what do you make it."

" Well you know to give up you did you are. I had a deal myself I was gonna try to make it. Yeah missile three years a -- don't make enough money at the in the three years to support yourself and -- for computers forget -- do something else. So I worked a wrote a novel rewrote rewrote try to get an agent who's really -- and all the sudden. I mean to deal. So that so the my first novel to thirty countries and US. Tournament so really dug a swimming and Obama and -- was -- that was a Moscow on a personal. But I think the one that that broke me through a lot more was wind died when high crimes made into -- with Morgan Freeman Fallujah. And from my book and they put me in the -- actually got to live scenes and my jobless to glare Morgan Freeman and kind of beat him up in one scene although I didn't should be -- You know so."

" You probably and so he's old he's old -- says Hollywood to throw. Script over the fence on the book over the fence in the for the money over the you have nothing to that was should do and then you go home yes you out of yeah."

" Pretty much where do I mean I'm not you know I don't. I don't make the movies I just want to be made and Louise are going to be different from books and I don't complain about them -- lucky if they get made so we've got. -- my books paranoia. Looks likely to happen now. Another one killer instinct you know there's group of killer instinct you know --"

" That is we want nose -- right now doesn't Brian Williams no conflicts from NBC and Arlen Arlen so I always think if I made it popular around and although I did and to a one idea that high crimes and human and a bunch of money right yeah. -- just say screw it and on announced that you know live in the luckily I'm not doing this for the money or not but now I'm doing because I I think it's cool makes -- independent."

" Or do her. Do you with the bat I'll believe you have gotten better as you progress and surely it is probably yes and if the answer to that suggest you look back that your -- up and say. Old man like you do battle organ which -- this for a change that."

" Yeah okay it's a guy and they've gotten better but I also think have gotten kind of more. Both real like more might my last 45 books a bit I think the reason that they. That the paranoia was first when they hit -- times so it's okay the reason I think is because -- Minnesota doing something wholly different. Like you know the real world characters. The talk like real people they're kind of funny either you know scary but. There were different my earlier books and the other ones like earlier books. You know but publishers were saying oh he's like -- of million dollars like on my answers something this one -- like. My own thing from paranoia."

" On revenue revenue big -- covered your own niches and I don't know for the -- all you books but your high tech. In a big business whatever industry is the basis for your. Yeah crimes your mystery -- mean like and for example I mean actually them all -- the -- read is that there is some big business card or major industry involved as opposed to you talk cop and and killer."

" Yeah I mean. It's like the way John Grisham suddenly discovered that you know you can have all this these conspiracies in Peyton Place and law firm -- a thought all right so what about. Tech firms to protect just busy busy and -- got some company out of Boston and in killer instinct that you know makes flat screen TVs and or whatever. So it's not like if not -- packets like. Conspiracy in the workplace. Which means is the real world it's our world. And in these worlds like there are some serious motivations do some -- stuff."

" Will real world takes us nicely to the relevance of view and the daily beast and CIA director Leon Panetta catch us up to date on. Well what is happening there and and how you've gotten involved in this yeah."

" So I'd be -- gonna start your car for you when you leave here -- a Knesset -- laptop well. We you know something this is amazing I got myself an amazing and that is the in the middle of this huge national congress. Published a piece in the daily -- the web site. Revealing that the CIA director when he said the assassination squads that that the CIA and lying to congress about it. That was wrong in some items that and he admitted privately and -- talked to three CIA directors before him and he said -- Menem's. So this did a lot of damage to the CIA has been packing -- since that."

" It's protecting your area and trying to really neat you think that's a nod to -- book common another CIA is after look a little little novelist from Boston you know at the CIA is not good news assassinations and their and go to the Renault and -- right right right now."

" So then the CIA in response to improve -- provide political cover CIA. Leak this information about black water on Thursday. Right so -- so happened you saw this -- The united the national press and C span and I'm up there with the CIA Director General Hayden the Homeland Security director. We're talking about the CIA's use of black water and private contractors all the sudden that morning it was the front page story. So it was huge there's a huge deal."

" And I'm I'm I'm behind an and you stand up there watch in the settlement stumbled across -- and a and there is no Michael Hayden and these other news intelligence officials. Looking respectfully -- little -- yeah yeah yeah that little -- and Joe Joseph re an insane. He's he's blowing your mind is here in the middle of the semi did you see your usually live and in the life from make believe exactly and you --"

" The plant which. The CIA director says something that's an excuse me general didn't answer my -- up public school right again say that the director. All -- and as you know actions I was -- from these guys and any of the journalists workers really asking hardball questions you know and there are some really interesting stuff -- came. And right now we're saying is this whole big deals with the CI AO with the government releasing these are excellent interrogation right. That is that. Here's what Nolan and talked about you know on soon today we don't know is the White House who was involved and we do or don't know we do know that we do know. We do know it's White House has been pushing to release this fact. Okay so the current White House well I'm sorry -- or even though Obama says he wants hands off is not as windows is pushing for. And what they're gonna do in this case would launch a probe -- we should do criminal investigation. Here's what's gonna happen they're gonna go after like six. Bad apples. And -- Abu Ghraib. That's what it is yet they're not they're not gonna go after anyone higher than these low level the Kansas just red meat for the far left its political theater -- It's like -- were distancing ourselves. From what bush and Cheney did. But what -- Cheney -- laughed at all week that of the drill the sound of -- real yet inhumane treatment looting and and and we're saying we're gonna kill you kill those against the -- yeah interrogation they are. Up yet you know let's get this. It's illegal it's illegal to reverend -- powered -- next summer. But it's legal waterborne. Right. So if that's and the CIA guys are saying. And with a lower or illegal to sell on the drill and just say use this on you if you talk don't usually go but it's legal to do waterborne. So. Understand the CIA as they wanna do this in the first place. It won't be involved because everything signed off on. Actually not their -- In one. Arts all of a sudden America has changed. -- don't do -- and it's going back in these cases. That are being prosecuted. Were prosecuted. Five years ago. -- career prosecutors in Virginia not not by the department just. By these serious hard -- prosecutors in this -- you know what does not enough evidence here. You can't prove intent. The dismissed the case. It is the public service element of prosecution. Hard working. -- hurdler working CIA agent artwork military guy who's making it real challenge from a tree in my view apple is right exactly press got -- so look at the USS whole idea. It's it's it's it's really outrageous and it's I think of providing Obama and the Obama administration. Way to show the world that we're putting all this behind them but the cost to the CI a -- into some sort of like --"

" Public relations campaign where he was embracing it's going to be a kinder gentler and beats it you know pleased. Understand it looks different kind of American president I mean who out there sent a good -- sounds anymore right -- that it's accessible Saturday and it's about what we think about ourselves yet what other countries think about us what. Our campus. Yeah every other country of -- Muslim countries right laugh and analysts yet."

" It's it is if it damages -- damages our own national security okay we're not solving anything were not clearing up any kind of torture right nothing. We're not changing anything. We're doing is we were just were presenting the speech it is is that not true that it is now illegal to deprive them sleeper play loud music. -- it is okay so we'd catch Osama bin Laden and we can't like crank up the the Twisted Sister in itself that."

" bluntly told reliably with the legal -- on. It's illegal lineup dental benefits etc. And we look at other cutting people's heads off Iraq crossed our minds. We're just with this always happens when direction we swing in Europe and went. And everyone that we hold to do this stuff. Is going to draw and we're told to do and what is the CIA guy can do -- politely yet. It -- in the first place -- now the earth what you think it's marginally on the hitting his over the FBI correct they are in the FBI gonna handle interrogations is to pick. Yeah we want him millions yeah he's right. What's in the pipeline deal. America I'm deep into the next one Allen and and this really what in this new one. Nick -- good we like -- gonna play in the Keller in the movie. I think in. Would -- when you yeah right. That a month populous and how far into -- our. About third of the way and then there. But particularly -- domestic. Right that it's. An everyday. Yeah in the morning when we work itself and it's in the morning yet. Weird you know I get really early to four mornings. And music and that is doing against the we -- should do well brother waterboarding that's an area. --"