" Fourth and final hour Dennis and Callahan. As promised we're gonna hook up with the author Christopher McDougall byways of introduction. Chris is a com. Contributing editor for Men's Health Magazine. He I was one of Esquire magazine's original restless man columnist. He's written class four rapids on a boogie board. He served giant sand dunes on a snowboard he's mountain bike across the North Dakota badlands is also for the Associated Press -- a war correspondent. In -- three different."
" Wars all specialties endurance you know like correct during its training endurance sports and this. Book kind of sums up all the things these studies researcher participated in. And to me it's like real fascinating stuff because you wanna know we know how much can. A man handle and how much in week we talk about Lance Armstrong or even you know cal Ripken for that matter yeah or Jim Marshall. Talk about guys and great in streaks of endurance well this these these put all those others to change."
" Mr. Tucker McDougal book called born to run a hidden tried super athletes in the greatest race. The world has never seen -- joins us on the full lunch and Pennsylvania good morning Chris it's John and Jerry in Boston how are you. Gonna tell you as I'm reading through this thing -- is finished and I just got a couple days ago from halfway through. And I'm reading about the horrible Mara. -- Mubarak Indians in Mexico. And I can't tell you what the number of times I said not can't be true this almost strikes is so antithetical. -- so counter intuitive. It's almost like that old Sports Illustrated -- instinct where they discovered some got the control 140 miles an hour you made this column is called the record that's."
" It worked out for the first time guys you blow my cover. Are now you to -- about a -- what was so fascinating for me wise I would -- the same process. Every step of the way out but. Not that it's gotta be simple explanation of figure out what is and stories over with when I first heard about these guys. There's no -- and 55 year old man in a bathrobes and slippers he's winning a hundred mile foot -- to the -- Your hopes with a guy is really 25 states his age. But the more I drilled deep the more and more albums ultra."
" Speaking of drilling deep the the Genesis for this story was five words -- outcome -- what hurts with sensual on this journey literally and figuratively. There's a cruise line this is getting nearest half the fun. Getting to the Sierra -- is copper canyon was -- half the fun at all I mean that you use you set the tone. With the landscape just trying to get to fight these people in the first place chorus."
" Well you know there's a reason why Eric boosted tribes Steve reclusive if you go to hard define and we did you find them they don't answer any questions send. -- it to be stupid mistakes I made right from the start I just assumed that. Eight guys are in northern Mexico argument -- didn't -- that art the reason that drug cartels prefer that part of the country is it's so. Hostel in accessible. That -- drug enforcement agents can't get down there let alone meandering idiotic journalists."
" When when did you know that this was more than just you know. A wayward American search for these crazy Mexican semi -- ended up. With as you as the title says the greatest race -- one has ever seen it is a fascinating. Culmination. At the end did you just get lucky here Chris."
" Yeah -- get lucky totally lucky because it's. Every time -- fought the last two overshot you know a little sort of crack appeared to Linux but there'll. Because this begins with the fact that I was always injured all the time whenever I try to run it to the prospect of me learning -- different at my age of forty. Seemingly impossible but I thought I'd check it out maybe these Indians. Who can -- miles at a time when -- in -- seventies and eighties. He further genetic freaks there's nothing I can work. Or maybe there's a slim chance that there's a little secret -- pick up and transport things to a turned up unlocked the option B. Built up to that effect like you'd find them that they would talk to me. That of all bizarre things -- happening pediatric use is due from California happen you living in the midst. And one of the top fifty mile race at every step of the way and an -- and the very fact that this is our tests. --"
" With which -- is made which is what makes it more fastening -- fiction is everyone wants to have a real colorful cast you know a cuckoo's nest. Group of people so you can delve in each character you do that. And it's almost like you're making -- the one guy one on one runner is more fascinating. In the next I'd love to ask you about all of them but a couple of my favorite I never knew about a meal. Is that OPEC. And other OPEC and and he wasn't and the race seasonal Czechoslovakia but. Tell us some about a meal because I wish I wish I had known as stored before office."
" attitude he'll appoint a post which a."
" Great point in your intro you talk about Lance Armstrong and cal Ripken and about in torrents with it he met those guys didn't seem to that effect."
" The guy is guy real long time -- the guys who. Burn it down to basics strictly everything got them the basics that you look at let the guy -- high tech. "
" But the fact of the matter after his cancer. He risky even though he built himself up from nothing and -- with the same way it's the guys in the middle of nowhere in the Czechoslovakian control."
" Self coached himself to be decreased its tour of all time. In the week that what didn't give a basic one this is this guy would do is. It would -- congress to restore the ground -- good -- in the bathtub filled with water so any rain and placed in the top. But the brilliant -- want it taught his impeccable -- mechanics."
" And -- if you serious about the greatest distance runner of all time because I I read in your book how how and why he disappeared but. Shouldn't he have should we know more about him shouldn't he have more respect of the of the sports fans of of the world."
" Brightness of the problem with it was if he's in Czechoslovakia. 1950s the Soviets came in. He refused to play ball with the Soviets and your what you believe though about great people is there's Republican machine out there to keep you know pound and their chests and saying their names. The -- effectively -- him from the world."
" We're talking with -- other Christmas Google's book is called born to run you mentioned debt or are are these and only get back to the the Indians in Mexico. In the copper canyon you said -- freaks or is option B maybe there's a little secret before we get to option B can you just set up for the people who have yet to read the book Chris. The counter intuitive things about these Indians in terms of what they're able to do and yet what they decide to drink what their lifestyle. What -- lifestyle is like. Versus their production when they get out on -- in a race course it just looked as that they have carved with their own feet in some cases bare feet. To the Sierra Madre mountains."
" You know. The big revelation for me was essentially everything I always knew about sports and running was wrong. It was because checklist like well there was a there was always -- indicated these Indians what these guys do is they don't have. If you use or products or coaches or sports medicine they wanted to it is only sandals. We'll go twice -- smiles and and not think we look at as the ultimate challenge you know peaking at Hopkinton ma the Boston got the greatest. He's got this six times in a row without breaking a sweat. You know as far as the form of cargo loading is to just get totally tanked up on -- beer the night before race and then. Up for the moment they -- that'll help all the distances going to be put aside the distance report starting."
" And they and one of the fascinating is but she loses they came to America. To run that was the leak led bill 100. And they get a -- deal so -- here was -- brooks had a real. A brand New Hampshire you. Rock ports that with a brand they shoot the stats or we could see them win it. First checkpoint the -- the shoes put the rules sandals back on and run the next eighty miles."
" And blasted off you know anything about that life is about the -- this is the real secret is that. You know we have mr. arrogant notion that we invented everything fiscally in the last one here but the fact is that -- doing this stuff for two million years. -- the greatest owners. A little time we going to do they work they instantly yours ago. But the point is that hopefully equipped preinstalled with re elected we will -- with great shock absorption in late. The great balancing ingenuity and adaptability."
" And that's the album are doing this so what we've already got the use that for which they don't get it up with accessories."
" And one of the great question you ask in and none of -- quite answered is why. Is it so much fun for them and it's a some of the other ultra marathon is in so much just pain and misery. For most people who strap it up and run five miles on the weekend."
" I think the reason why is because -- line there's no five year old planet earth that doesn't like to run if any played. In the planet before the age six he called her name is -- connection and -- and the reason why is. They don't use muscular force to run these -- Cable look at Choo get to watch it reached frame will start to leave for you just before they fall but -- in -- Capital -- the same way in the gravity doing it's like skydiving. Or. All or space everywhere no reason why rollercoaster exists that -- patient is really ruin it for."
" So is it is that technique we're talking about what what is the secret of the freaks or is very secret is a combination of a bowl."
" Whatever food they are you know we we like the fine genetic reasons why we ought to -- like eight indicated there is better than we aren't that different."
" They're not they are exactly genetically identical the difference is -- technique. What the apple wanted to do which actually guilty at his it was well. Is that if you watch the leak and he is or five you'll they want with the same technique."
" Very short strive very bouncy ball -- using gravity. And that is -- learn from the Bible. When I got rid of issues kept the ball went footprint barefoot everything changed dramatically."
" And sneaker companies are Italy. And much another point though you point that. People waste their money the best running shoes. And one of the guys when you care practices have put it on ultra marathons with the mountains have bought. Which I still can't even grasp --"
" I disregarded if you consider as being barefoot and holding -- is simply disregarded as being in a raving lunatic but over time. You know every night guys -- the dead on the money."
" But they're all lunatics that's the beauty of your -- I gotta tell -- my favorite line there all the Apollo is obviously the main character he's fascinating. -- Jerker Scott Jericho I didn't even know was the best ultra marathon -- beacon which is just bizarre to me eat nothing but beans and tortillas in Hendrick and just water does. I mean and he's a fascinating character. But bonehead to Billy and Jenna my two favorites Jan the chick who gets to visibly pays the night race. What which was like hanging with -- just little bit. So wild woman."
" What are roller coaster before but I -- it was a culmination of sheer joy in sheer terror. You know I've actually an article Outside Magazine this month. On line -- but the gallery of our. You can look at actually what is she money that big smile. Side you've put a couple of pulled out his hand in all help."
" I'm glad to point at the pictures to you know predictions hold them upset I honestly jam you know I wanna say -- these nuts but. That Jerker is Scott -- is like he's like Michael Jordan like Tiger Woods to these people."
" Exactly and this is the guy is --"
" Would somebody go to great athletes you'd make yourself a student at the sport. First and it -- you know his early glory can from the fact that customer out of -- in word from the -- the mighty men of old."
" That's -- it is a young guy."
" Studied these indigenous tribes in that -- was no hope these people who habitually ram long distances for survival. -- basically absorb all of are still there right now he he's a killer is terrible trials."
" So tell us about the greatest race the world is never seen Chris."
" Against all odds when I -- impossible. I need wanted to see if I Katrina port fifty mile race through the canyons -- Mystical. Sort of -- this guy like my outlook of the white course who's been living in hot down canyons for the past fifteen years or so. He -- the mortgage rates what he wanted to do. -- it is best neutral waters of our time it got the joker against the best of all time the title -- the tendency. And I thought meant I -- just -- reap what you type you know it just trying to survive and be fantastic. But I had to overcome what you chronic injuries that it would look like what I learn how to run within 21 century armada. And then you know basic 99 was later raised a team and it was. -- group -- a Indians. Great cultural orders have been you know my -- but."
" And and and the establishment ultimately honors there. -- I was sitting in the Linux and Cuba and how much you could tell you finished we give that where you didn't win."
" What I was like. Six hours -- that it would have been --"
" I mean it is a great ending just pictured you -- staggering across the peninsula in the dark all these rest of these runners have been drinking beer for. Wait for you. And what what -- and then you get into the real story of about all of Blanco. Which is fascinating but. What we've had deemed color analysis on a few times we'd like dean dean. You're not as big fan -- dean as as we you."
" I don't know what to expect we I was trying to dig that in the book is that. There is a strong sentiment about among ultra runners that he's just sort actually and there might my role as a writer which is to reflect that sentence itself there. That the one I think the one walked into the great thought there was flaw in it is that there's nobody in it could be. Knowing these seniors the."
" That's true whenever I never heard discourage American red -- had had dean on a couple of times on the show he came on our show one day. And ran from Fenway to Hopkinton in Hopkinton -- the Boston and we were in law. -- that Terrell my -- do that before breakfast."
" accurate is it true that not -- not self promoters is that the thing."
" What hearkens back seat and it's out of model or its early humans is that running as a group activity at least not a coincidence it's had a thousand. And the people -- in the Boston Marathon here and that's our instinct in human is to pull together. To run together. And the ultra marathon this -- a short lived by that went to work with two race."
" The guy stands by the national Adobe -- point four hours later cheering in the last -- to commit. And that's what people criticizing is that he finishes a race he's bought."
" I'm guessing at these and you will not come out of the canyons and make themselves available and probably not into commercialization certainly the run and -- border or homemade sandals. The letter read a just a couple sentences from early in the book. Where you talk about a one of the Indian women's told an exhausted explore who collapse of the base of the mountain. She had that it may gourd full of murky liquid. He followed he swallowed a few gulps and was amazed to field new energy pulsing in his veins he got to his -- And scale the peak like -- over caffeinated -- The -- the explore would later report also guarded this recipe -- the special energy through that leaves them trimmed. Powerful and unstoppable a few -- full packed enough nutritional punch. To let them run all day without rest I'm sure commercialization. Never occurred to the Indians as it occurred to you Chris."
" The fact that you get killed or six of the secret possibly. I get to the way I -- ready to compete like thirty or something in the book that he got a chance to try this stuff myself and all the ingredients are readily available. And it is actually surprisingly tasty and it seems to be physiologically accurate this is no vote is the real deal."
" They eat. They eat. Pride miles barbecued most they drink tequila and beer. They don't stretch that'll warmup and -- wear sneakers that on how father races that don't -- iPod is just the best and the best on in the planet earth than and we can't give away the hand but. Protested to integrate and."
" even more respect for you if you tell me you actually taste of the late to -- The horrible -- feel the -- from -- in fact deceptive to drive."
" The first time I ever saw that in the stuff I've been traveling all I can -- times now once in my arrived after they've been exhausted. I arrived at the full settlement and the guys that I had just what you need. Plus this giant mason jar and there's a kerosene lamp I don't see the -- because -- as he handed in the thankfully to a glittering eyes in the job. Rattles they quoted in the -- they got the belly up. It loads. Not a bad first and then you instantly regretted."
" You drank it. Yeah I did my. Little -- and."
" Are these guys. Both the Americans and the Mexicans they. I'm glad you gonna make them famous now they're glad that there's gonna be like movie companies got to make a movie out of this."
" I'm convinced I'm convinced that it could that I need to rewrite the script he did agree to it is a movie -- happen."
" Yeah I thought about it you have to bio has mixed feelings about publicizing the Indians because they're very private however we feel like we can. Candles flickering this is a culture that could be wiped out through neglect. Abuse. Lots of road to be pushed and attending. Every time they come down there -- the tribes disappears and he feels this is their last best chance to get some recognition for their extraordinary ability."
" So you haven't heard -- about a movie yet."
" Yeah on the road that would be rescued someone you know it's."
" You know we were talking earlier but what you watch on these two game and days before the All-Star break and after the All-Star break when is nothing on. Ultimate Fighting Championship soccer soccer a Minor League Baseball want to put that man versus horse race in Prescott Arizona on. A fifty mile race man against horses. And the men usually win."
" I -- great idea it's an awesome idea because what they've -- ultra running is. -- Released just this bizarre mix the characters I mean it when it actually wasn't that lucky that I stumbled upon these seven because every race is packed with people."
" And they don't care about they don't want cameras there I mean. Why doesn't stop Scott juror you know do what dean passed 10 the book group go on Letterman."
" You know that's the question I think it speaks to who the guy did. You look at it as an art you know you'll feel like our position out there are published by English -- you know he's in different art that. That we tour looks --"
" before you go what's the most amazing feat. I mean when you you claim what they claim one of the a room -- 435 miles. On stuff equivalent of Detroit to -- your yeah. What's the most amazing endurance feat you've seen heard about read about witnessed it in your mind what jumps to mind."
" There's a guy named Marshall were makes this journalist guy in his mid fifties. This guy does things like. One year peace summit Everest which you know -- most people. How can build from Everett then ran a 145 miles across that the ballot in July. One here he went back and forth across that valley wartime general world it was 640 miles India the middle of the summer without stop. He's lookin' great so -- up. Even that was at this stage he's funny he's got."
" We'll see insane but we are in question. Could could you -- John could we do that if we. We put our mind to is you know."
" That's the big revelation for me the big reveal is absolutely that these transformational went through in nine months from not being able to launch this step. To be able to handle fifty miles in now at the same way I feel like a walk out the -- my bare feet pair of shorts and go almost without limits."
" wanted to fifty miles again right now I didn't. Go. To 200. We aren't -- yeah."
" In Tibet erupted with you guys could I told you there was -- billion dollars a hundred miles from the studio right now -- get that by tomorrow."
" You're about Sarah Palin and like the key and I'll admit it out do you wear an iPod what do you think about when you're running undermined."
" What did you think about that's appeared together this is you know your mind wandered afraid to relax seeing. If I'm jammed up on the problem. I -- note that this step would only get the solution on the road and synod I don't want to clutter and going running not to have stopped possibly --"
" gonna go find those pictures that you and the crazy brother -- ultra marathon -- Chris McDougal is liable to -- born to run a -- tried super athletes in the greatest -- the world's never secrets fascinating book a fascinating conversation appreciate the time Michael Laporte. Yeah Chris -- what Dennis Kelly and you know. You can do you can -- a -- like hundred miles since you and I should make a."
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