Sep 25, 2013|
We look back at some history via Michael Holley's War Room and discuss some history on the Patriots philosophy concerning the wide receiver position... plus take your calls
We discuss the improbable win over the Browns and the loss of Rob Gronkowski with Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick on Patriots Monday.
We discuss the Penguins-Bruins game, the scraps and cheap-shots in it, and how Sean Thornton is remorseful, but not all Bruins fans think he has to be.
We tackle four topics at 4PM, today all centered around dirty hits.
We discuss the Patriots win, and whether or not they ultimately lost by losing Rob Gronkowski for the remainder of the season.
Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)
After some general draft conversation -- -- Belichick get into specifics. Of the falcons brown street. Thomas I'm just telling you as a friend Belichick says I wouldn't do it. Belichick of the couple good reasons -- analysis. And he's willing this year he often says that the primary job -- receiver. Is to simply get open catch the ball and Julio Jones and either department. He thinks the receivers struggled to get open on intermediate routes doesn't play as fast as his superb time speeds suggest. And too often displays inconsistent hands there's also the issue of value. When Belichick began studying the 2011 draft. He felt great depth at the receiver position why go all out for someone like -- when you can likely have a Jonathan Baldwin who. As far as Belichick and the is just as good if not better than Jones. Belichick wanted to even more insight on Jones he could always ask the receivers head coach Nick Saban the two time national championship winner. Who was Belichick's first of -- -- coordinator in Cleveland but Belichick has seen an up on his own without going to Saban for an additional report. And it dropped if not shocked by the comments not only does he respect Belichick opinion. Some of his own opinions exist because of what Belichick taught him over the years. When he first got to the patriots in 2002. It took a more scientific approach to studying hands and separation after hearing Belichick describe what a good receiver should be able to do but in this case. What it comes down to is a basic. Subjective. Disagreement. I wish everybody can get an opportunity to watch Michael hall. I glasses on. Bookie and handed readings from his masterpiece how masterpiece. Chapter five or fifteen excuse me a war room. If you have an edit history Michael's book seriously I recommended be like feature your -- room was better not tell them that mostly it again I really enjoyed this book. What a perfect week to have you do such an amazing dramatic reading. It was almost a dramatic re creation I imagine you. Type writer and hand like I assume you use -- type of corona like -- right you definitely have typewriter in your office your power away and the key -- doing your thing you get the classes are white outline couple a couple of coffee over here right. All of your reams and reams of research on paper. My call back. But colts. Locked up not gonna -- -- -- it. But he's got a parent a dramatic reading. From Michael Holley of a paragraph or so of war room. That seems to be incredibly relevant this week from a couple of different angles and obviously any time any time Bill Belichick is telling his friend -- to -- dropped. Who is of course still the general manager of the Atlanta Falcons. I wouldn't trade up for Julio Jones I know you're thinking of doing it. I know you'll like him he called me ask for advice what do you think I should do I'm telling you I wouldn't do it if our future collier the GM that you're gonna do but I wouldn't do if -- were you and here's why. Yet and he he looked at and I just read -- they had a conversation and Demitra off. As I said he wasn't shocked by it at all the big -- it's called. Two of his buddy's normally. Two of his -- buddies and -- no ballots -- and Scott Pioli at the time. Pioli said sure I understand what you think. Yeah I do and I go from 276. I would give up. You know multiple first round picks in the second round pick in the fourth round pick. Where you are -- your roster is you feel like you really need to be an explosive offense and got Roddy White already Tony Gonzales that you love. Julio Jones and AG AJ green you want one of those guys scored do it. Got to mature roster. Every day you can you can cash in. Whereas Belichick looked at and said now. I wouldn't I wouldn't do that. Because I think that's for this draft it's pretty deep deposition. And it's gonna cost you a lot you'd better be right and I look at the guy Anderson things I see that I don't like now. I think it did. It needs to be said that Belichick looks that receivers. Differently than most coaches in the NFL the highest in his whole life. Highest he's ever taken a wide receiver. Take a second round. First round took one receiver in the first round -- back. Way back way and Cleveland in Cleveland. Who love Michael Jackson who has no doubt that not Michael Jacqueline was that's -- good -- little. I'm like I was I went to Michigan. I don't know who wasn't Eric Alexander saw Trevor Derek yeah I remember him yet so it was 29 overall pick. So in all the years that Bill Belichick -- there was some numbers here today. Love a lot of stuff. Of of all the years of Bill Belichick has taken receivers. The average draft position every receiver he's ever take. Average draft position as 139. Now that skewed a little bit because back in the -- you know they've they've recently -- draft several rounds. So I before there's no 289 anymore he's taken a receiver to 53. I can do that but still only 910259. To 359083. To 3212 -- 33601 and so forth. It looks at the position. In a different way than Thomas Demitra has promised to let process tell -- we got a trade up 27 to sixty get one of those guys and Bill Belichick would never -- that. So you're asking for his advice I think Thomas knew what he was gonna say -- I think what what I find. Fascinating about reading this and and and getting into it this week. Partially because you're gonna get to see what Atlanta looks like. With Julio Jones Roddy White in the other side Gonzales the whole offense that Matt Ryan has come match you and remember there one until I mean they got to the news NFC championship game last year. They're of they're I think we believe very good team. They're struggling defensively they've had some they had some injuries they played some good teams so far so I'm not sure we know exactly what Atlantic is once again this year. But it's an interesting. Continued look at what Belichick is thinking with his wide receivers with -- this question a dozen times more. Why did he all of the sudden go for ability over durability this past year -- or or or and or ignored this whole idea that your abilities came. Why was he able to let Wes Welker go wide that he valued these two tight ends over Brady's. Good friend Wes Welker who have been so dependable and durable overall -- -- here. And I -- clues as to why. If if you're if you're doing nothing more than trying to figure out what the heck goes through bill Belichick's mind as you know was -- to tell you exactly what he's thinking. Try to look for many clues as you can and looking in quotes like this and then in some of the facts like you just point out terms of where attracted those guys what I'm hearing. Is a guy says he doesn't need wide receivers are half right. But if you wanna know why he thought Wes Welker was replace -- sure sounds that he thinks most wide receivers. -- ultimately -- are -- a lot of people say that Bill Belichick doesn't know how to evaluate wide receivers I don't believe that. I -- if you don't I'm not saying -- hall of fame coach. Can have weaknesses. Lot of hall of fame coaches have had weaknesses. Certain positions -- the overvalued positions that they under value whatever. I just think it looks at that position overall. And when he talks about bill when he thinks about building a championship team that's not the first or second or even third position come through as -- collector base. When you start with the patriots in 2000. I was looking that the today just the DB short of it took them three drafts to address the position at all in the for the patriots so you're starting a new team well and what they wanted to do with the point the way he looks what was the other given the first for the -- in the seventh round. -- Note I wasn't in the first position he took authority and 2000 draft you didn't take receiver. 2001 didn't take a receiver in the first receiver took was and in two dowdy to bring you operate at 65 right. So. You're starting a new job. You're looking at this as kind of an expansion team. Actually -- everything I'm starting over. When you start over. It tells you a lot. His first first round pick what to -- to lineman Richard Seymour. Now I gotta top ten pick I'm taking a defensive -- what I do about next pick to a left tackle. It's been about. So 139 point four average draft position -- change anytime soon it's just not going -- You wonder where a quarterback would have been on that list of Tom Brady had developed into being a great player that he was as quickly as did. I mean at what point -- -- decided Friday need to find that franchise quarterback to build around or do you think you would of yeah he would have been satisfied looking for great game manager we've gone out and found Trent Dilfer type of a guy -- -- you had been with Phil Simms obviously. Early in his career with the giants you -- even would have gone out and drafted a quarterback in the top five. Or tried to. If if one have been available let me know if do you think -- would have -- made their goal of ideas if Brady hadn't turned out to be Brees quickly is it. What are draft a quarterback that's up Favre sure. Sure I think if you if you got a guy if you've got somebody who -- there in a position where they need a quarterback. Blog guy I talked on the defensive line in the offensive line but. Still he even more emotional -- -- -- have a good quarterback so I guess I think you would have taken look at. So you know waiting you know what he values you know that he's valuing defense -- and defensive tackles -- offensive tackles and that that's where he puts is. Immediate stamp on the New England Patriots. A wide receivers not a position particularly curious about now whether -- judges that well is still a conversation right off court -- -- let me go to the list of guys all -- -- It's open it's open for conversation it's that it's a debate I can understand why black people would say -- he would do it. Absolutely can't let it look at that position. Or or why would he think Julio Jones wasn't as good as Jonathan Baldwin. Art it's all it's all open -- and that is his coaching history and in some of the moves he's made. When he's been in charge. And it just. I think it's pretty obvious Exelon Hollywood's it wasn't part of that group is hard to judge and that's why he doesn't value it is highly in the draft saying look. It's a crapshoot you might get an unbelievably talented guy but you might get somebody with such a head case or Hitler in the offense -- doesn't understand what he's doing that it doesn't work out for mean we can think of tons and tons of high highly thought of highly regarded -- a wide receiver types in the draft and you can do that with every position but maybe the risk reward just isn't there for them -- look. Defensive ends are huge boomer boss early in the draft but if you get one that booms. It is it is such a dominant figure it's worth taking the risk on because you need that -- can rush the passer maybe in his view it's just what look. Garrett I might get a really good wide receiver might end up with a AJ green might end -- David Terrelle but. It's just not important enough to get AJ green that for me to take a risk that Mike it. I think it's a good point. But I'm wondering -- Aren't a lot of positions like that college football you trying to figure out how to translate. As you look at a quarterback. Who just lighten it up -- for 56000. Yards in college football. Your first thought is well you'll be able to do that -- it would win when he asked complexes. He felt the risk reward is there and are you you have to take ours because when you how -- might be good you make go to the playoffs every year for the next fifteen years aren't running backs. TI don't think it's worth it with a running backs -- you know it's why you don't tend to see too many taken early when you do. People give up economy with Trent Richardson's like Aaron we tackled running back with the third overall pick what the hell was the previous regime dealing. Our immediate rewards blue booting -- Adrian Peterson. But -- the upside of most running backs is just not hoping your governor of a short of five years and then justify the at the risk of taking them up high made the same is true in Belichick's world. Of wide receivers and that's why hey you know what if -- Wes Welker -- -- Yes or some articles on -- some time as some good years in Denver -- for him I'll be out before I can replace that position is just not that that that the upside of it is not so high that it's worth worth some of these. Risks from and mobile laps later news. Was Julio Jones a Republican from the patriots perspective. Did did Atlanta I get everything that it was looking for out of Julio Jones and they did go from 276. Which is -- time and that's costly. Just done. You don't see that often. In the NFL. Knew what -- take what you -- So. I don't yes I know he's pretty photo of people on the other hand you know they have some holes in their defense that which are local lot better they had more draft picks to fill it out will be -- a lot of patriots and wide receiver conversation you do know what was said today speaking -- wide receivers you do know. The big news. Coming out of Foxboro today Michael. The most durable. Half. That -- Like yes. Suit of armor. I boy are completely consumed by our all command says he's nearly a 100%. He expects to be a 100% shortly so everybody out there who assumes that -- and dole is going to be playing through awful pain all year 60% of -- ago. No way. Says banning the tough guy -- is now Michael he's going to be fine. You'll be a 100% shortly does that mean he plays on Sunday night probably won't find out -- shortly may -- means against New Orleans may be against maybe in Cincinnati. I smacked him down percent that week Danny. We do not talk about injuries. We do not have projections we don't give people time lines. We don't give them updates to give a timeline the top 100% shortly really. That the timeline kind of him to meet a must sort out what thought which shortly and how resilient now he's opened up that hey. You said okay this is what on this -- you said shortly and I think and outlook ten day -- -- what I like about it forget shortly I think action a 100% as more important in the shortly. We'll be -- -- percent whenever he gets to be 100% but what I like about it is shortly that it did dead or -- 100% are right that this will be when he gets back. He will be at a 100% John -- is gonna join us. Coming up here at 230 as he does every single Wednesday their course Colorado -- talk to John Farrell from Colorado coming up here about fifteen minutes. His Red Sox don't win last night actually kind of an ugly game Lackey as a -- particularly well but more -- the bullpen. Just looks like. That are there limping towards the finish line and if you're trying to figure out. What are you worried about with the Red Sox heading into October baseball. I would say three things standout. From either last night -- the last day or so one -- That eighth inning is right now is Alan Breslow and that's got to be huge question mark Dempster stepping up and become Mac guy I don't stuff yeah that's 12. You watching Victor Reno last night and he is clearly bothered by whatever don't know with -- hand a couple of swings retook the hand off the -- was grimacing and shaking his hand. After hitting the ball. He's been such a crucial part of what they've done it needs to be 100% but he's good -- they're going to be he really has been helpful for this team that's -- And the third if you read rob Bradford this morning WEEI dot com and we have some of the sound of Dustin Pedroia talking about it. It's not a huge shock and we've we've sort of wandered in and Austin up there before the Pedroia has been dealing with a this thumb injury since the first day of the season. But today finally let's on the bad injury was actually a little bit more significant and we. Damage something we've talked about all year long. I would Dustin Pedroia he injured himself from the first series of the season he's kept playing through it put the word you stand with it on one hand it to say this to Mike. Guys hurt and it keeps playing her. And -- even though he only has nine home runs. His defense has been superb throughout the season he has been productive he's got 42 doubles here's a guy who knows how to play when he's hurt. Then the other side of it is while he's hurt. And how long can he keep this going and he's swinging one bad slide. You know just just one funky play away from from being out for the post season do you worry about it but I think. On the list and this is crazy it's just crazy because of your rate rob story. Going over a number of injuries rallies hurt last year for a couple of months. Now we -- in 2007. Down the stretch she was hurt he was hurt a post season. And he played off fourteen games. It sounds like a guy who gets hurt a lot. But the crazy thing is he's the least of my concern. -- -- -- Right so it's different features -- Different injuries this one's a ligament the last it was a muscle find that. But it helps explain maybe some of the lack of power numbers today. Nine home runs on the year. He is is slugging percentage way down and yet you look at the other numbers and they're pretty much where you'd expect them to be for Dustin Pedroia injured or not. Hitting right around 300 really get on base percentage in fact amazed percentages up may be because as rob suggests he's not concentrating on trying to hit for as much powers to try to get on base drive the ball the other way do things to it to just get hit. That's a good point he said the big swings you don't see that the the big. That that vintage Dustin Pedroia -- little guys who do have issues because he's he's being he's being Smart about and trying to preserve himself but if you call all the things that you mentioned are all. Things a Red Sox fans are concerned about. I'll save that Dustin Pedroia is third on the list I would agree -- -- I would say Victor Reno is second on the list because for a couple of reasons one they can sit him down they wanted to -- the the last four games it probably won't but that could look like and and he has been playing hurt all year long and it's been productive. He has but he but hands -- differ I don't you know I feel handed batters are just different. It's one thing -- -- -- and Pedroia I think that it makes his you're so impressive and a time to deal with something in your hands and you're trying to swing -- -- That's really big deal yet ready to okay plagues and Andrew -- never really go to -- those -- your hair didn't artists and the -- -- you need to -- that -- need to be able to turn your wrists over the need to be able to grip that that the right way. Is incredibly important baseball so kudos to Dustin Pedroia was an incredibly tough dude -- got through it all year and I have some worries about Victorino. Only because I think that along that what he's got its gonna take to heal but he does need to sit down because you keep injuring the damn thing every time you try to swing a bat. By all means sit them down in one game lead over Oakland if they were to lose out on I don't think it's the end of the world so please let the guys sit down. And and be healthy by the Yankees are the -- -- and I. The number one thing for me is the bullpen. Because we talk all we we talk all year long especially this time a year we talk about. Rotation. So wears a Red Sox rotation Greg vs Detroit rotation a look at your top four -- the Red Sox top four. But it really does come down to the bullpen upset that before where if you go back and look at. The playoff runs -- the that the Red Sox have had whether that was a year that they won the World Series 0407 or year they got close in 2003. You look at the winners. In those games. You're gonna see some pretty unlikely names for example -- anybody out there remember Curtis let's Danica winning a playoff game. It comes down to those bullpen guys sometimes. And you just mentioned two names they're -- they're going to be relied on in the post season Craig Breslow. Jimmy -- to follow while. That makes you nervous. Craig -- that Curtis let's Annika this staff maybe you -- the bullpen mechanic for 2013. That occurred Brazil directly or mechanic somebody's gonna have to be all right John Farrell will join us coming up next last about the future for Jacoby Ellsbury. The Droid victory -- injuries while it's coming up stick around salt -- to be media. I'm anticipating a 100%. Shortly. I don't know land but I'm getting closer and you know I guess that's just going day by day in and that's true realities of. -- he had gotten there Chevy go anywhere. Allows you need to hear. What else would you possibly need to hear -- nothing. He -- I don't he's been a 100% shortly Danny Amendola I don't need to hear now -- -- me you know I -- your -- to hear it and other than anyone else. -- Danny Amendola. -- -- Show -- I don't you know we didn't gloves. All the almost that will. All be out I'll be there soon. This play man. About a way are you willing to concede that he -- Appear in fifteen regular season game I don't know what a -- -- -- adding words to the conversation fifteen starters I was not having words there was never debate about the regular season -- the debate was how many games -- -- play in the this year he's already played in four. And so he needs eleven more to get to fifty split four games aren't amidst the -- we talking and he didn't. You watch -- and let them play -- -- -- David -- -- -- played for pre season games he played one of them what was it played three regular season games he replant three of them and he's played in in one of the three -- what was your record net in the -- I don't know -- The game up I don't know I would record I felt that he played and it was the giants' record. The jets record right Netherlands three it was a victory for their three you know okay. That's what matters so why -- -- that's still talking about the records but no question about record on. Raised a question about how many games he would play in that you know actually for real comedy and -- had not put on the spot pretenders and time. -- played at some point in this segment. Five marks -- Talking about Danny Amendola who and what you don't do this year net. -- -- -- -- You are here are -- and our hearts -- say what damage did the -- that's right game. Danny Amendola. However here that. -- measurable even if I take -- the pre season certainly -- if Taylor Richard won the public that it would you -- -- the reason is well he'll get to fifteen including the policies and won't -- be no doubt about it Michael had no -- I have doubts whatsoever I feel so strongly about this stronger than I've ever felt anything like you think the patriots -- -- -- be a top two seeds in the in the AFC a -- to see ya know I don't think arguably one of the -- I don't I think they will be never going to be Cincinnati to handle -- can -- Yeltsin in Cincinnati I think they'll be one of the one of the division winners that doesn't get a first room how about that. -- that for an exact. Saying that I have no idea of what the hell's gonna what the march oh well it all marched learn things that you want to know what you think -- well reportedly about Danny Amendola what do you think about him and -- A lot of public enemy in my apple prediction again it's all related on. All related on can he stay healthy I think super -- I think he'll lead the league in receptions. And that this caveat if he'd stayed healthy and in the guy I love money great football Weller a great football where. -- -- that's the question mark it you know world -- CV eagle sixteen games I don't know. Yeah there ago. The superstar he threw sixteen games apartment regularly sees a bit of pre season because if you factor that -- -- -- games. I didn't hear that side effect from you all day. -- that doesn't sound they were Belichick's back you know month wasn't I didn't hear anything out of that have -- -- there are sat there staring back at them. I think we lead the league in reception. -- The best side affect you meant a lot of that -- Well regardless you guys are taking good news and turning it into bad news -- dole says that he is getting close. He is nearly a 100% and he's going to be there shortly today Needham. An item on Sunday. Well that's part of the conversation is is do they need to get themselves into some level of a shootout with Atlanta clearly they would like to avoid that they don't wanna just go back and forth back and forth. With a team that has the offensive firepower than Atlanta but Atlanta does have a weaker defense and say what you want about the jets -- and and boxed. They're not going to be good teams this year. But it won't be because their defense -- or would you agree that. The problems that the jets and Bucs have -- did not stem from the defense of side of the ball the jets -- our woeful offensive team when the defense of team that has some level of talent. And the boxer already make -- a change at quarterback they scored three points against the patriots you have problems with it was their offense much more so than their defense I think you would say the same thing about the jets so. -- not I don't I'm not in the patriots can't get themselves into a shootout win because I think. It Brady still has some of those games left in amending these receivers -- continue to develop. I expected they're gonna have gronkowski back this week will wait and see navy getting Amendola do we need them. -- -- -- but I think your whole are much more complete offense when he's in the. Are you -- governor more complete offense with him in the -- but I think. If you look at this game. Patriots falcons. I think they're pretty comfortable. I think they're comfortable with the matchup and they wouldn't say -- we know we know that and believe me do I include that. About. Saying anything about your competition that they can they can interpret as disrespectful. Or dismissing them. But you'll look at. Well keep talking about I keep talking about the falcons receivers Julio Jones and Roddy White and in the you know that Matt and Matt Ryan and got a lot. We a lot of explosive players -- mentioned Rogers and Douglas. But I think the patriots. Kind of pride themselves defensively and how -- on most of the time 95% of the time how much more physical. They are in the competition. And how to just line up their their front seven big. Strong physical front seven players who love the contact or not the Mets players they'll come matches we will -- they won't eat you alive. Into an -- and I think they look at the falcons there offensive lineman. And they think that they won't be able to deal with -- retired in Delaware and down so I think they're comfortable about it. Baltimore a finesse team a -- right and they would have rejected that label but they are kind of a finesse team and in. When they had Michael Turner Medicare there was an attempt there it to run the ball some level power and I know Stephen Jackson is -- that kind of -- back but. I don't think he's scarce teams anymore with -- a running they don't have turner anymore they're offensive line is never really been able to be a pile driving type of the unit. The way and the date they expected them to become so yeah. That's more of a finesse team how does your defense reactive to play against the finesse team. And I think that's something that they should have. An advantage on now the bigger difference and you pointed out we talked about it earlier in the show them continue to go back to your book -- compare these two organizations. I mean there is say there is a clear difference in philosophy. About weaponry about what you need to have on the outside in order to win both teams. I don't think so utterly -- there's a difference in philosophy about weaponry I think there's a different in different philosophy about what you gonna pay again. And I brought up for a -- all all the comments and all the rave reviews about 2007 with the patriots. Spin actually. There's a second round pick and I think it was the 72 and fourth or second in the seventh for Wes Welker. So spend money on Wes -- give -- second round. Is that you give up a fourth round pick for Randy Moss. It was a essentially a one year contract for Donte' Stallworth. Our Jabar Gaffney didn't cost you much -- had Brady year union Maroney in the first round and how much did you really give up. Get those guys whereas the metro officer yes we did weapons. Willing to pay a lot. To get. A fire -- -- an offensive firepower type of team team that. Ali will you you're gonna have to -- thirty's consistently to beat so I think that's the difference. Look at that you look at the NFL now he pretty much you you better have somebody. Or you better have the ability every once in a while to score thirty points. And -- the patriots and falcons when they're both healthy they have the ability to do it but I think -- just a different path to get. Well there's no -- and I think that's what I was trying to get it was a difference in a philosophy on how you wanna go about finding those weapons if you're gonna arm yourself on the outside how important are those guys clearly developed -- Michael even though he's went out he's gone out and gotten weapons. They were not that important because you -- overpay for them. Yet get to have Randy Moss is good to have Wes Welker. But he wasn't drafting those guys in high rounds in fact he didn't even give up. First round picks to get the -- talked before about the lack of of wide receivers that he drafted in the first round in his career. You show the importance or how important those positions are TU. By how much value placed on how much you give up in order to get them by where you take a chance by how big chance you will undertake and to the -- was willing to take an enormous risk in order to go get Julio Jones in that draft he isn't able to trade up. Huge numbers spots give up a large part of his draft. Because he felt so strongly that this one player not just that he was gonna be that good -- but that he was gonna do such a good job that that he was going to be. It was going to be that helpful. Right not just that he was the right receiver but that it was that important to what they were building in Atlanta. And that is not the same philosophy the Belichick is that -- it hasn't hasn't gone that far out of his way -- of this nature Brady is that well. And in this is anomalous to start out their do you think. Belichick's philosophy would be a little different if he had scouts telling him. What Demitra scouts told him so -- off had a couple of scouts and one of the general manager now right now as it was less need. And the other one is as assistant. While my account was a former patriots by 2000. Thomas. Julio Jones is Terrell Owens. AJ green is Randy Moss. -- they -- told mr. Thomas. Julio Jones is Michael -- And AJ green. Is a better route running Randy Moss. Now if you look at it it I know how Bill Belichick feels a -- receivers or -- the draft record says how he -- democracy. Mostly go to Wyoming say. They built and I don't really generally believe in in trading upper you know receivers and given up a first round pick here and first round pick next year but how about. I can guarantee you pretty much -- stake my reputation on this. -- trade up to number six and number seminary. You're getting hall of Famer two minutes is the most irresponsible plan rather heard of Randy Moss. Michael Irvin. Terrell Owens -- trade up to get one of those guys you think it's philosophy which range. If you get your opportunity to get one of those guys you -- do was spend draft capital to get it this year or next year would you do. But my impression is that he would not -- Belichick my impression is that even if told those things buy scouts he would not do it now I don't know exactly and you written the book on it talked about it earlier Texans we -- from a maybe we can even give away copy of war room later in the show. But -- my impression is Michael that he wouldn't do that because even -- the scouts are telling you this is a better version -- better route running Randy Moss it doesn't mean he's actually going to achieve those things right they're still risk factor in drafting any young player there's a huge risk factor in drafting wide receivers there's there's. And to have mental issues in. And all kinds you know personality quirks etc. they're divas all those things that we know about wide receiver so. Now my impression is that he wouldn't do that that the position is not so valuable to him that he is willing to give up all that draft capital and all the players that you could receive with those draft picks in order to take a chance that he gets the next young version of -- -- TO or Michael -- I don't think he's looking a bit of -- want that surely loved that. He'd love of his second round pick Aaron Dobson turns into the next EO. But that doesn't need or the next Michael or whoever you wanna compare it to him. But I don't think he's willing to say I have to have. The next Randy Moss and so I am willing to give up and take this huge chance in order again and maybe you think that's a mistake 617779. 7937. I just think we'll come back to he said the other day. Where the -- with a wide receivers on the giants won their Super Bowls nobody. Has long term answer I don't was but but but you know the first time -- regarding what we're -- don't -- -- -- -- -- -- -- eighty's and ninety's John -- and the next time it was led by -- -- it was the was at the highest receptions on that team coming out of the who would report a wide receivers with the giants when their last Super Bowl. You know Victor Cruz was there and so -- -- -- there. A pretty impressive guys I don't know I don't think Belichick doesn't want to good receivers he knows the game -- changed I don't think he's trying to play in 1990 football in 2013. It's just a matter -- where the emphasis in his. He absolutely have to have those kinds of wide receivers to the patriots that won their three Super Bowls have. -- world class respected everywhere wide receivers now they David Givens they had David patent they had Troy Brown. And -- had good tight ends. They were built the same way I mean that they were built closer to waive those giants teams were that's not to say that it be looked exactly the same -- brown. At a hundred catches but he was not running deep down the field every time he wasn't Michael Irvin. It's nothing like -- Thought that's where I come down 6177797937. Mike is in doric I'm. There you go -- Mike there. Could your vote. Spoken to -- it's like you know when you go to Wal-Mart if you want a dvd and get. Good out there you know -- out on the new dvds you know which detonated -- adults -- goalies. -- that -- -- with a cute but you know two to ten dollars and and the for the dale. And and I think. Better yet you know you know it's a great example the let's let's make it even little more grassroots. Are gonna come into the barber -- sometimes helps a barber shops selling CDs and it. There are or dvds and in the wrapping his little lose and they give it to you for discount -- the same movie. But when you look at it you might see -- popping up to our on the screening because there's not quite refined. As the shiny new dvd news. Exactly exactly and and I think. I think some -- from my perspective. As the stand at a big patriots and I I just think it's a shame and in a few ways I think there's this certain. Opposition that you can take that approach in the but I think that Belichick. He thought it was almost every position with the whole you know you don't go to the second round acquire picks straight out of the first round. And with Tom Brady as your quarterback I keep the ball back you know what it would this is the fourth quarter of his career with a backhanded grab all of you want to -- it. And you don't have that luxury anymore of go to value don't have valid -- more of a roll the -- again in the dole who I think is it is great receiver but are a health risk. And you have to you have to capitalize now and I just don't. You don't like so -- so admittedly just doesn't ever see Mikey you get the he had to take that pulled the trigger approach and say you know what. -- -- -- I don't want to I don't see Mike I disagree the first -- disagree with you in terms of needing it right now I'm not a big -- I tend to trust the idea that the wide receiver doesn't need to be the biggest weapon on the team that if you have the quarterback and you serviceable wide receivers and you spent the capital and remember he has at offensive line position to make sure that your guy Brady is protected at the -- maybe more important I think they need -- running game I think they need to continue to build that running game -- and -- that offensive line for more than just protecting Brady and I think that helps the defense -- has spent a lot of capital -- capital specially. I think all those things are very possible without going out and going crazy at the wide receiver as well go crazy somewhere. So let's say it's not wide receiver. Maybe it's another position hasn't gone crazy anywhere well he did trade up as you said last year for two different defense suppliers to meet obviously decided he needed a great defense -- a great linebacker and twice he's drafted linebackers are. I -- really not -- So I betrayed he traded up -- If which would you go up and which got 21 spots for wide receiver not necessarily texture here on eighteen -- -- excellent points out correctly. Now you don't see a lot of he's big time receivers with rings whether it's. Irvin has three but he -- Larry FitzGerald and Andre Johnson Calvert county Calvin Johnson -- -- ruining none of these guys I don't coverings. That's fine. Jerry Rice has a few Jerry Rice has several. But. How about if you say well yeah -- value defensive line it will go all out for defensive lineman called out for Julius Peppers and just for example nothing's available but one of those guys go all out all out for. The next Patrick Willis or somebody so. Who -- your philosophy of the defensive players to the defensive lineman or linebacker pitcher philosophy of this is high impact the game more from this president positioned in wide receiver or go after. Alaska well that so I guess at least a two questions as you talk about wide receiver specifically -- is Belichick undervalued and do you think that he needs to put more value. Into the wide receiver position and then secondarily. Does he noticed talking about when he's drafting does -- know what he's looking for and is he accurate in finding what he's looking for in the draft. If -- read me quote Saint -- of the Baldwin's going to be just as good as Julio Jones. I mean obviously he was wrong about -- that media actually wrong. About the wide receiver position in general explore an axle and -- your calls as well 6177797937. -- W media. Well there does and it's a pretty much everything well. His a very strong physical receiver -- With good speed. And on the running game he's season very. Aggressive blocker. -- -- crack safeties and so he's you know as a tough guy. Gotta match up against he's he's got a very good speeds -- can run by the defense but he's strong and he can run through to. And he's tough and he's. He's our got to tackle and he does it does everything well. A lot of nice things to say about now that's for sheer. Sure likes what he's seen after the first couple years Julio jones' career why would anyone a better wide receivers in the league it's Bill Belichick speaking at what earlier this morning but again you go back to Michael to your book. War room which was written one how long ago -- mountain in November of all almost two years from our Barbara -- -- and so when he said this must have been a little bit just before that would have been dozens of the draft retire before that where you'll. Where he says went went to -- drop asks him about the idea of trading up a whole bunch of spots in order to get Julio Jones. Belichick says that talent is a friend I wouldn't do it. He just doesn't think it -- think of of Julio Jones is being good enough player in safe enough draft pick to make that kind of a leap up the draft. And it came up talent. To do it I mean first of all I guess the price of doing businesses -- There's the obvious one. When he 76 or you're swapping. A first round picks in that year. That that's one. The other thing is and I think what would it turned out to be for Cleveland. Cleveland. Wound up making it rate with. Kansas City who ironically so -- winds -- with 27. And it it took -- At 21 Cleveland wanted to get up give. Yet still Taylor member told Taylor in the nose tackle from being built Taylor from Baylor. They would have got him so that was the tree so Phil Taylor for Julio. We don't know whether or not this is worked out are currently -- I -- -- -- -- there's not a better are they. Where -- with those specific players they certainly got the best of them by so they get a person next year. And then they gave up. Another argument a person that gave up. I don't know what they would -- those -- I don't that they would have taken Phil Taylor I don't know that they would have taken bombing. I need to you know who knows -- in the -- would have done he's whenever somebody party utility based on what you audit and it was about what -- -- -- -- what's already -- based on what I've seen that they are very good team they've got a really good quarterback immediately guy and they've got two excellent receivers liking them with a hall of fame tight end. And a running back that is okay third a third receiver Harry Douglas but I think is one of the better ones at that position and there's a reason why -- patriots fan you'd think this is a great test for your defense and for your team this week Atlanta is considered to be in for good reason. One of the better teams in the league so by that by that account yet the trade is worked out so far for Demitra. -- -- -- would work out -- -- -- how -- the have to win a Super -- for it to work out maybe twelve doing nobody would have done with those picks -- very well. I don't know what he would have don't those strict you know they got the second here so first the first pick was Phil Taylor. -- it's -- optics. The next year. Atlanta's pick goes to Cleveland their first round pick right and you know Cleveland took. Brandon we didn't -- well -- -- telling me look Mike Holmgren has twice been stripped of GM duties so what Mike Holmgren ended up doing with those picks doesn't tell me all I'm glad I got about I think William worth his salt I think would admit trust point wise. Was this. I'll get my team's gonna be good so if I give you a let's just this calamity breaks out. To pick him in the top ten. 27 bike gets fixed. View twenties something next year for their right to get Julio Jones -- -- about what he saw but I don't think. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Doesn't understand good wide receiver play or do you think he simply doesn't value that much and -- come back to the -- and say to them value -- that much he'd rather get those depth guys that he thinks are available late in the first round over the next couple years that what you can get with one big time wide receiver 617779. 7937. Evans in New Hampshire -- Hey I guess I don't get -- -- what's going on -- Does not say. You know you got to prioritize different positions and a valued position. And I would rather have a good up and the client and to -- applying to quarterback. And good receivers see. You know if you your current quarterback -- the terrible offense line equivalent. -- Eli Manning this week was a perfect example really throughout this year -- I mean all three games no offensive line he's got great weapons on the outside we all know he's won two Super Bowls and in an apparent to throw the ball to anybody was sacked six times in the first half. On Sunday. Right and and you know if you have a great what -- secret because no offensive line even a good quarterback you know might not be given at the time to get -- that democracy result I agree with bill. You don't really need. I mean look at all the guys Tom Brady has -- it look good in the past so it mediocre guys. Turned -- he did because the bullets I'd get -- a good quarterback. And and the client to emit into a lot of pressure on another quarterback or in the -- thing. You know you can part time. Yeah that's true but that's the situation where you're talking about building a team from scratch and like how do you start and I agree with you if you have if you have no roster. And you have a you have an opportunity to start building -- team you start with the quarterback you start with a different nominees are -- receiver don't think any of us would start with a wide receiver. So we're talking about the New England Patriots who are already solid at all positions and honey go from. From -- from concentric contender to. I -- favorite. Yeah but with one Aussie title and I think another part of it it's got to be added in it's certainly this is reflected in your book any little Belichick talked was about bonds on Monday is. The draft is still very much an inexact science is that yes crap -- involved aren't so the more pitch you have the march it is you have to get it right -- that's just. Obviously more picture how the more chance you have the game one of the writer to the brighter three of them right at top guys that are gonna -- in on your team. Yes when you trade up your your getting to a point where you think you have somebody that's more of the guarantee. But you're you're giving up all bunch of opportunities to get somebody who might end up in a better player and I think he just looking at it as a as it as a numbers game in the more shots to get the best players and there's there's such a big risk in taking a wide receiver not just early but creating a forum. But he's just not worth that. That the players I'm I'm giving up on the draft picks and giving up on are just -- too much to take that shot. Well -- I guess it also depends on where you come from to me for the patriot. For the patriots and the browns. To a degree. They haven't really been an all in in a position. To take one of these game changing wide receivers. They're not gonna do -- to -- -- it's just. Makers have never done anything like that before at the highest they've moved up average. Tuchman the first round. Is eleven spots. I believe they move from 3221. On Daniel Graham but. When when you're when you're that good and you're talking about taking receivers at the end of the first -- into the second round -- willing to go up fifteen or twenty spots for guys. My relatives. How is the question is is it's so worth it to you when you see one of those guys we use today. Well the difference between the number one receiver on the board in the number of five receiver in the sport is so dramatic. Whatever it takes yeah I just think there's too many examples of second and third round picks are evenly first round picks in or out turn out to be really good -- just not worth your time. Six or 7779798378. Top quarterbacks we'll have a completely different conversation for somebody plays that far away from the ball. The latest on the Mass -- I Glen what's going on. -- A much. I wanna try to articulate that the best I can but. Everybody I love you guys are gone with some like there with a greater supply and now that play like they used to play. But when they -- supermodel seven and 2011. Everyone blamed a detour -- I didn't look at it that way I blame the offense the offense not controlling the ball and controlling the time of possession. I love the way to treat just played middle for you know for they control the clock. There's a lot to be sure. The controlling the clock is good at that touched down there you can control the clock for nine minutes of Super Bowl -- -- the beginning. You have a tremendous advantage. Etiquette at the patriots get back to that. I would love it I just think what would they would be on the anyways yeah. Let you and I see is a 100% like I completely agree -- -- -- talking about all year and it's my favorite part of this season so far now in order to do that you gotta have the right personnel for. You -- have an offensive line the conducive run blocking you gotta have a running back that is capable and also doesn't give up the ball very often. And you gotta have a defense that does its job and -- itself off the field on third downs and especially comes up with a few big plays because they're probably in need to score some points or set up some points for you. But I agree. I like this element to the patriots this is more reminiscent of what once Super Bowls for them this is more reminiscent keep bringing them up today but the one of my favorite teams of all time. The two giants teams that won Super Bowls under Bill Parcells but -- I mean as a kid I love those teams I love the patriots but I loved. Those giants teams and 8890 year 87 and ninety rather. Yeah average closing at more risk and Iranian. Time yeah that great defense -- a team -- like yeah Wimbledon like forty to 48 minutes a better way to make you Q I feel what you just did their what they do what you did there. You said Saddam's in Morrison. And intimate cocky you know I kind of of our -- tomorrow. He's at an agreed deep in the ground -- order that bet that -- exist you can have a -- the patriots and anybody else in the NFL. -- have a team like that if you gonna give me pepper Johnson and Lawrence Taylor. And Karstens. And never had an Arab banks and Idaho and Leonard Marshall Eric Dorsey you're -- Gary -- our guys Michael but but you can get a reason why start with the offered -- -- of conversation I don't want is a reason why I. Start with the offense this conversation of course the defense was the superlative unit on both of those Super Bowl teams what the offense on those two teams did what the -- out to the ball. It it it it it had huge trying to possession because they just found a way to hold on to the ball for a long time whether it was Joseph -- over and over again or OJ Anderson and Rodney Hampton I think the second time -- just let those guys continue to hang on to the ball they helped that defense complemented that defense. You're absolutely right the defense those giants teams was the better unit they were they were hall of fame Lleyton. But it was the offense that complemented them perfectly. And that's I think the part of the conversation that I was looking at a point now. Six or 777979837. As Belichick looks at at wide receivers and we're going through some of the names here that he's actually chosen and passed over and over time. Is he is he looking at it the right way philosophically. You have a problem that or is it simply just a judgment that counts talk at all at W via. It's it is a perfect opportunity to look at some of the differences between the way they're built. Especially knowing that the falcons having Belichick protege Thomas -- trough as there architect Michael Holley wrote the book on the more room. You are popular war can we give away that confidence at -- -- sure. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- What -- give credit to to a caller that you like -- a collar that happens to make a good point in the next hour. -- -- -- Sure you can DVR or nurture -- given way to whoever you want but a caller our product has given way to whoever whoever everybody calls him the -- certificate can be attacked -- may be more difficult but a caller texture. Leader somebody that you like somebody makes a point that you like you'll be the final judge. Over the course of this final a couple of if you ask forward anyway we know you can't ask you lose and you can't ask for a Michael just past the deem me worthy. I'm competitive eating -- words and just and just to -- him because it's good and when you look at politics thing no I wouldn't make that deal for the wide receiver Julio Jones. Is it because he wouldn't make a deal for any wide receiver or this particular one is -- he's just if it's just Julio Jones he was wrong he's wrong Julio Jones -- wide receiver one of the best in the well. 27 to six -- -- I you know so what would you do look at the guy is the guy comes UN says are have the 27 pick in the first round I'm gonna make a trade. -- my first rounder this year to 276. Eligible are first rounder next year literally my second rounder this year that we came to -- -- Defensive -- for the browns. And then another pick for Julio Jones not a single -- -- do you tell your -- telling him what the stakes are what what the what the cost it. But that's part of the issue is if is city is it a philosophical thing or is it and a valued and value thing. You just have -- value of evaluating wide receivers or are you comfortable doing that you just don't think they're worth that much about it by the way yes Wednesday. I'd love Obama talking football people hearing their jargon and all that that and they all. Admittedly though say they'll admit it. You have a vision for what -- team is going to be and you really passionate about it and give these animated discussions we -- One other organizations people within your own organization. Doesn't always mean that. And you -- you talking about Richard you're -- and it takes some leaps that wool -- it will fail badly so. The Atlanta Falcons were were right about Julio Jones he became he's becoming the -- they thought but I remember when Cleveland took. To ball -- with their that was the 37 pick. While -- -- locker -- on -- shaken and just after the guy with a one car here at the why did they have what they drafted him like he's gonna come -- -- -- start form he did. They trapped him like he's got bigger player he -- so. -- and builds and -- some Monday and it's true. You can have your own science of finding players in your own feelings about what a player isn't in isn't going to be -- Really is is just a lot of its bid is in Northampton I don't. They don't like all again. Eight I'm -- -- think -- all of that being so optical sort I totally agree there's a delicate Brian. Migrated -- -- -- that one and I had a chance of -- in changing wide receiver. I'm Pritchard has rice salt and lemon at one is yet he was right here opening -- not only did they not take on the traded down. Yes that's correct. So they took they had they had. -- could have taken Dez Bryant in the same draft that they could get them according they traded down twice. They also can add to Ameristar. Look at the -- They -- at the -- is Thomas or. Or does -- was clear that that year they they didn't like either those guys enough right they trade down and that gold safety at the time cornerback in -- forty. In retrospect do you even dislike level. And -- retrospect would you rather have. Has brought it to me there's been a lot of off field the BS I have to deal with with him are ever hear the answer. I would rather have Dez Bryant knowing what he has right now but at the time that you draft and I'm still had some about growing up to do. And you did get a great. A Pro Bowl season. Out of Deborah -- So now it's easy it is I think most patriots fans even I'm -- I'm gonna get 65% patriots fans who say yes I'd rather have Dez Bryant them court. But at the time. Of the actual draft. It looked like a pretty nice pickup for the three -- you -- it did Steve isn't far hi -- now stands at Berkeley and a liar thief is in our area and clear Dartmouth which what is it where you. -- down on the so called south received from the south goes like that better I like. -- so -- -- -- -- all and I wouldn't talk about you know oh my god I. Am -- -- might page that's how does that -- on the radio that it's it's almost impossible to imagine that happening old people don't want every -- purchasing -- -- basis thanks -- -- -- double talk about a one in all three and how we look patrol in the game was boldly that. Crazy it was -- defense of problem. Every syllable bowl lost the pages and it has been an extensive property reference the -- seven game in the giant -- ninth. Minute drive while the patriots are in the second to last drive of any consequence had to have the second longest drive of the game and got a -- We have two minutes of flight three seconds on the clock -- every baseball -- its two outs in the ninth then. And they get the 83 yards away I want plated David -- 83. Flipping got to -- and needed it touched. And they let it up no matter how you say this happened that happened there -- twelve plays in mantra. They -- up to the patriots and all wind did not control the ball they gave the ball back. Type the type again to the single with red and hot and they tied the game. And if you listen to the announce that they would it would adult time but no they decide finally try to score it's that it just punting the ball holding onto. They also. Possibly they would have not -- -- look at a planet that the current ridiculous the only given the history listen now I only need the points. Also said something about. We got a draft why men -- black black black. Just to get to -- you'll see this year I wasn't doing a -- -- -- an -- like -- it's right here staring at me to point. Out. -- problem and it's been up -- Steve can I interrupt you for a second sir do you consider your perspective yeah. I just wanna get you back on board and I wanna remind you which he told young Ben you told young band. Tell these guys stop making excuses. For bad personnel decisions that's your point so you think. The patriots have made bad personnel decisions and that's what I'm trying to help you get here so go ahead Mexicans speak on that. She might. In 2000 instead been noticeable boat people trying to pin down an offense who got a late touchdown. You had 82 longest drive that -- -- downs out of bed and then down you didn't kick a field goal because you had a two yet kicked -- -- never have been. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- You able to mine that information from the from the deep. Mine -- of Steve from Berkeley so his point is. Stop talking about wide receivers and value. When they've made bad personal decision White House fortunately wasn't. -- -- -- -- -- did you defend that in anyway all right full line still hearing a lot or your calls to come in the 4 o'clock hour up next though actually a wide receiver heavy version. A 444 questions. All wide receiver related subjects rockaholic W media.
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