Minor Details Ep. 38: Ben Cherington on the state of Red Sox scouting and player development

For the most part this program has looked at specific players prospects guys like. Jackie Bradley junior or Zander Bogart's -- Matt Barnes who -- having. Fairly spectacular seasons. Or we've also examine specific events things like the draft. But now it's kind of bigger picture time. As the season winds down. We're joined this week by Red Sox general manager bench Harrington to discuss the state of affairs in his minor league system. As well the challenges of sustaining the so called scouting and player development machine. At a time when the rules in trends in Major League Baseball have changed somewhat dramatically less than a year ago Major League Baseball and the players association agreed on a new collective bargaining agreement. That changed the rules governing how the draft to works as well as how international free agent signings can work. The result is that there are now new rules governing how top amateur talent is acquired and then subsequently developed. To impact the Major League level sell -- don't discuss some of those changes there implications for the Red Sox. In how the Red Sox have responded. -- Red Sox general manager bench Arrington thinks so much for joining. So for any number of reasons it's been kind of an eventful eleven months and obviously this has been a challenging year at the big league level. Given some of the performance circles there. Have you been able to find some solace or perhaps that ideally reprieve based on what's happening in the farm system. Well we've been very encouraged by a progress from group a number of players at the minor league low and then them come on equally -- bunkers but I. How are curse that has come together both outings that are our immaturity international. In light -- the good -- -- and gave him. Alterations. Draft. International market. -- Staffers get out certainly shaped it well it's just that strong on here is well now. In addition on the that. Think we. We don't get it out there and congress for a number of players including some guys do. Who. You know. -- -- -- and I think shot clock a little bit. You know that I -- in progress. -- great Britain and -- -- and got it in. It presented development challenges. And -- and out. There -- leadership. Outlook and in general it's been. In it cheered players Altman. Oh yeah and Hitler don't respect. That commitment and took -- course -- -- but the underlying underlying. That. Since you lessons you mentioned the changing landscape of the new collective bargaining agreement that's kind of fascinating that right after you took over your job. The industry and in a sense the rules of the industry kind of changed. Do you have their been or do you envision. Any structural changes not necessarily personnel but structural changes to either the starting side or the player development side of things. -- -- -- -- Mostly change after the last. There are. Didn't make we make it struck it. -- the court. You know certainly our. Team. -- rule that. Vote I don't back. That big brawl on -- -- -- Seattle and the number of about it hitters and add -- that. In the world. Via. -- the -- Then. Here. In. It is kind of interesting that you know with these new with the new limits for instance on draft spending. There are. Meant to -- could make that case I guess that there's an incentive. To find diamonds in the rough more than ever obviously there was always enormous value and it but now more than ever since you don't have that much to spend. Given that was there -- thought to just you know flooding -- with amateur scouts and you know hiring dozens more guys or or. Did that strike -- as perhaps an inefficient investment. Well I guess a long -- in one certain volley party. Our mission and Butler and others that it changes. Yeah top liners on the changes that -- Now in retrospect. That Bolden -- -- engines without. About the Tigers are smaller and have a good but it but the the greater game. Did their job then we take advantage of their strength kinda knocked them out at certain down. And Eric and -- it but. Now or whatever weapon. -- It is drafted. It did take better advantage in the -- that you have or the or but they'll -- money -- -- you have. Well the other out. You know it's -- come down on them. -- the players better than -- in there and there's nothing that all of the dispute that more than outing and -- doubters so. Think it it is about the NBA. And there's more important on it and think that. Now. Ortiz it is. But it that it. This should really. The importance of it -- -- Should continue to. It helps outs and help out. And street. He value. Appropriately. And a that India -- people that. Just have a -- actor. And a fine right player. And finding out. You need to find out -- out there and make decisions. That those people are going to be early or -- -- happened but certainly. There all -- that you'd think those people. Talking to Red Sox general manager bench Harrington -- and we've been discussing the the significant change in the landscape to the collective bargaining agreement. In this new world that's kind of now taken effect in 2012. How much if at all to the -- CPA. Alter the need to develop homegrown talent as opposed to building -- roster via trade or free agency and again maybe that's not adult -- I'm interest in your perspective. I don't know on that question -- -- we had not sign that answer it I mean. And as a general eminently. You know all league that needs develop our talent and it. In order to have the team who and sustain that over it I'm. We -- that impact on players but the system and -- in the team much like we did -- And so you know that at the -- That whether that. Even more important now. In the world and I'm not sure -- -- new world figure that out but I don't. How important. At least certainly needs to begin practice sort. 86. Basic -- We did we do better up to her job and our competition. At. Players in the first place at -- In the draft or international or or that you know professional immediately market. Then you know then LB yeah there were success and what does it ultimately. -- major decisions. In those are. Markets. You know were were -- -- orange set up. That success -- the circle. I am I assume that the same out of the same logic holds true of the question of whether or not the challenge is now greater than it has been of kind of building a productive farm system or at least sustaining the quote unquote. Scouting and player development machine. Namely you know has it's it's perhaps too early time to figure out whether or not or how the new CBA influences that challenge. I'm. A challenge it is it sounded a bit I think it speaks for our I think is that. Think it's been on and so aren't there. That -- same boat -- international market and Raptors and emphasis on. It's sort of old fashion organic. And finding finding out that others don't -- and I think that's that's something that he knocked out are out there are people out there watching players on players. More and opportunity go on -- kind of players that others now. That's necessary in this. Environments and so -- not respect. And it's been fun. Count. On. That responds well. We're joined by Red Sox general manager bench Harrington and -- -- another kind of there's. It's interesting to note that you obviously have a background as the Red Sox director of player development assistant GM Mike Hazen. You know formally the farm director of the of the Red Sox. Does having the two of you and positions that you occupied. Change anything about the organizational emphasis have you found. Did you know have has there been -- I know perhaps more of -- home -- biases -- results of as a result of your backgrounds or has that been unchanged I mean obviously. Theo Epstein your predecessor was not shy about about his emphasis on the importance of building up through and through scouting and player development either. We'll go to give priority you know -- You know certain right -- has their strengths and limitations and then make sure we're -- any I had that -- from so. It's. In you know my background and a it more likely and I'm biased toward certain a term so. Someone who. -- bounces that out. From -- and throw people in our apartment. Leadership group. Got some work now I'm. You know I think I think -- time -- position you're. It's. It's healthy and necessary. To bring fresh voice in the room and and where is that success. Early on period. We did. -- recently. You know there's there's certain natural the deserves a circle around that success and become an insular. And and human -- and -- don't Utley need to recognized you know he's had to watch it. The solutions -- sciences is making sure that. Fresh voice in the room so. We talked about it not. Those specific background that. You know. Looking for are doing that. You know we. People later make sure it. You know we have an appropriate answer check bounces. Each other because you know you set or background or -- certain. Certainly it's I guess comparable to a business that every now and again you know brings in consultants from the outside is not making hires from the outside nor -- kind of -- change and change the dynamic because there are a lot of people are probably I imagine that at a certain point. You guys probably know years -- know each other so well you can kind of anticipate. What the other one is going to say when you're trying to make player valuations. You know I think he. And that at the task. A group of people. Though it could be more and indoor court I'd like Smart Scotland -- -- and so. I would report you know secret but it's -- that Utley out that people. Build up that challenge. It you know things are on -- you know you doubt that in 2008. You know is churning. Out players -- and and -- that their system. You know -- those are still out there every day but there are those those that are and it would make everyone would understand it. You know those those are easier operate -- -- It's not that we are now then that's really -- and that's. I'll leave. It probably -- It through this and another. Success. But certainly in the meantime. And Evan. And how we got here. And that's way out. Talking to Red Sox general manager bench -- about about the Red Sox minor league system as well as the the scouting operation and infrastructure up and here's -- -- probably over broad question. Last year for the first time since 1992 the -- Major League average ERA for teens dropped below for this year it's gone up slightly but it's still the second lowest. League average ERA of the last twenty years. Given the shift in those numbers is there also been a shift in terms of the most difficult kind of player to draft and develop. As -- -- question that you know. I can't sit there. I don't think in any certain. Fundamental way I think that he. Process and that's fine drafting. Players and amateur ranks. It is hard enough I doubt I got that make an impact and he is hard enough. Without. Larry -- the Major League or contact on top. Too much. So especially because you know that. Those measurements here hurts me really you know run scoring environment -- the well. Expected -- didn't and I'm out here. It did so. -- -- it you know or or amateur level that we are predictive. And we're learning more about that every year learning more about what is predictive but not. From a physical skills employed or employ -- and that are. Or -- Make appropriate tweaks in the system. I think yeah I think it and in Italy and we recognize that. You know -- parents need -- multi skilled players certainly at -- mentally. Certain taxes pitching. Typically have a better chance succeed numerically and things like that but. You know we need to be careful about. You know taking. There are short windows. You know. A short window performance and ends at the mid level what it looks like -- is lying on top of amateurs because it's just it's our -- and it. We make it challenging process even more to do that. Given that given that direction that things have gone and out and as you say can't influence your decisions for whom and for who to draft and -- going forward but. You know given that league average ERA has been going down and that the Red Sox CRA has been going up. To what degree is that a reflection of you know of what's been happening inside of your own farm system. Well I think -- answer questions are pitching or election a lot of things. And eastern look at it. Operate its way. Toward doing it. We're -- it around there -- Duke. There at NY happening. And -- news that. It's that -- -- them. I think guys that. You know have a chance does he partly -- that the attitude the better than what they are now. And we have some guys that don't need to be better and are now are. That that's part of it you know our. How are preparing him and our actors aren't and it certainly eat there -- But now that's where we play. I was going to be -- -- run scored that way and some other parks and so. It is just that in the -- at that. And and it's certainly you know. Eat its simplest way to go did you. -- a bunch and really get it. Sound young pitchers coming up. Not surprised that. We had pretty good about those I don't know it not -- about pitchers out there and that. Or helping so. It's the combination of all those. And we and Anders or is -- -- group. And there's a chance that for the first time in twenty years you guys could end up with a top ten draft pick the top ten picks in the draft are protected and the -- CBA. From free agent compensation the rest or not. How much could your offseason blueprint changed depending on whether you're situated for save the tenth the eleventh pick in the draft. I'm pretty. Certainly there's the difference between having protected pick. -- -- The level. How aggressive you are certain. Free agents out there but that's certainly part of that partly calculus and Urban League actors. What you're getting out -- as it is just money it's one thing that money a Dick it's another so. No doubt that -- all he's accurate or you know actor factored in. The last split up there aren't used to. Because obviously election -- It is it is this year and yes we -- excellent candidate outside -- you know or end up. As early this opposition. You know we do those were probably pick higher. Out Lyle and -- community that -- Is it safe to say that the world of -- CPA in which spending as captain and based on on the picks you have. Did there's a considerable disadvantage. Perhaps more so than ever before in giving up a first round draft pick. -- -- -- You know it's. And we also allergic to that we have done it on occasion and you got it. Years where we additional. Competition -- back the other. -- in -- out some to some extent. But. You know looked as though I think there's always somebody lottery tickets yet. And you know each each pick in the draft age. Answer every part of this and cool it is a lottery ticket and in order to hit a and great impact on the organization. Lottery tickets or out of the batters she did eat out and so. We wiwa like. Increase your chances anyway possible. To -- the most we can't expect international market also. And so we're gonna be you know we're certainly can be. Calculated. And options open. Getting up getting up there. Again it there'll be. There'll be times. You know there -- early on sports justified the depends on circumstance situation butter ball where it. You you mentioned that this is not -- it you know being able to take that high is kind of a a mixed blessing him and more -- extended his blessing by virtue of what's. What that means for the Major League level but. How regularly are you following that part of the standings sister are are you falling on a daily basis OK we won yesterday so that means where. You know we've we're now at number eleven or or are you just kind of tuning that out and focused. You know focused on not on what's happening at the Major League level for its own sake rather than thinking through every outcome based on its implications for the draft. Yeah not quite everyday habit to check it. And maybe others in the opposite they're. -- -- -- every day. Be ejected and time again that it actors -- after going up. And -- The final question I'll ask is again a broad based one you alluded to in you you alluded to some of some of the younger pitchers who you unlocked. Mostly to double A level you talked -- meet him until Drake -- Brandon Workman. How would you assess where the system stands now compared to a year ago at this time. Where do you consider the strength of the system to be in where do you see potential gaps. They don't think he gets that Florida you know -- -- read it about. Others but. We feel like we about it street saying that it happened here number one. We seeing that floored by a number of players you mention of them. It's. They Bogart and -- Bradley. Trash. That that person that is for Brett get the there's others but now in its that or bad -- guys. And that's that's well it helped that. Now the of the farm system to take up a double and hire. -- some guys those -- vaguely. And I'll be. Our system let them or to use that you know we still another year in the system. Draft. Internationally. That the draft first. Much at it there's too much pitching. Out to shortstop out shortstop about the start. And you know get it at that -- next here at the ball well. And then international market we we think another strong restaurant here pretty and -- -- Our shortstop. As well. That he. At -- what we added up to the shortstop position. It betrayed. Treat the Dodgers treated. We -- that -- a pro. System. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- shortstop. Pitching depth I think to take in that order were. Or better shape there weren't heart because I. Moved up the latter part because. You know he did his first year for Matt Barnes and things like that are in trade a couple -- good arms in the system. You know I think there's there's solid areas earlier. You know Tweety we focus a lot of athletes -- -- you know players. On aging. If there's any areas that. Not as deep. You know court order back. First is cork bats. You know route to the we yeah he. -- We've got a trap shot a year he is. Here. That's. Relatively speaking it's not what he. Overall. Expected we could hear it could have -- and start to -- guys getting closer. Well. Oh. Ben thanks so much for joining him taking the time to think about you know the the shape of what's happened to the farm system. Into the scouting and development infrastructure over the course of your first year as GM. Oh. Next week will be joined by Red Sox farm director Ben Crockett we'll take questions that you send me either on Twitter. At Alex beer or by email. Ace -- at WEEI. Dot com thinks is ever to producer -- today. Into all of you for listening and look forward to checking in once again next week.