Talking Hoops Ep. 9: Author Scott Raab on LeBron, Cleveland and what it means to be a fan

And now. Own WEEI -- Ordinary in everything you wanted to know about the Boston Celtics in the sport of around bowling generally only one blaze Duncan who sweep the whole plenary on WEEI. John. We're back with a hot.

many many months as we did one as there is no NBA but thankfully today. We have the greats got -- right or large from Esquire and author of the hurting new book the core of Akron and I'll give you one guess what that was about but actually Scott how are you today are happy to be here excellent. This is a book about LeBron James but it's also about. You and it's also about the city of Cleveland -- is that fair to say absolutely sure. And it's it's interesting because. But when I got the book I wasn't sure I wanted to read 300 pages of of -- LeBron and you know eviscerate -- which are fine in in and of their own right. But and so as I was I was happy really happy with the tactic taken it's it's it's an amazing book an amazing read every -- check it out. But let's let let's take these things and in the three parts LeBron the city of Cleveland. And yourself what was the hardest part a part is there were blows the hard part for you right between those three those three sections.

That's the hardest part I I think where it was two lived through. Last season up until June 12 when. The mavericks finally defeated the heat. Who -- the writing part -- was fine. Ripping through the season. Where the cavaliers. Who had been the center of the basketball universe. I don't think even think that's a stretch. For seven seasons. Have frequent -- had reason to believe that it was possible especially. The last two LeBron teams which ones 66 and 61 games you know it was possible to think without being foolish. That that the city's two rout was finally going to end. I so when I started the book it is it wasn't the beginning last season it was the beginning of the season before when when -- to look at. And -- Shaq was traded. You know to the -- was the first my first physically able to start the book. So the top part really was whipping through a season where. The cavaliers. Would decimated. By buy is free agency. And we're at DC as far as I was concerned. With destined to win the title and that that made it. Really a season of hell like Leo when your quick look back and you always think well at least things can't get worse and they always get worse.

Yeah it's it's it's funny you say that because your boss of course things have gotten much much better in the last twelve years and -- wants to hear about our misery. But you know up until you're really up until -- that patriots Super Bowl you know we were the butt of everybody's joke. We -- that that we were that we -- the city even though we lost we lost an unimaginable. Horrific ways and it's mainly the Red Sox I understand the Celtics have this amazing run which.

I look I like the way you're simply going I understand it.

What is this Celtics -- worry and are every bit the dynasties that the Yankees are I'm not arguing that. That every fan based doesn't have its reason to cut back. Because everyone's entitled to -- but but to dismissed the Celtics no adverse and they are central brilliance I mean as as of as of but just -- I can't think I mean we can all be -- the Yankees we can all I'll I'll agree on that but -- seriously. When you when you look at Cleveland when you look at two generations of fans. Who regardless of the sport have known only the bitterest defeats without exception that's what I guess again I apologize for an erupting but come --

No that's fair and it's as -- say it's also a generational thing Eminem I'm 37. So when the Celtics run ended you know I was a young kid and I've been able to enjoy them. But you know but then then you had all these all these awful Red Sox things that happen but you know you -- arts of Cleveland. The catch the drive the fumble the shot and I hate I hate to bring him hop.

Look at and but people also we leave out the move them are -- AME imagine the bears. Imagine an owner deciding that you know what. The city is not doing enough for me they're building a stadium hoping that the Indians in the cavs built the stadium but I'm not making enough money I'm gonna take the poor rounds. And I'm gonna move down to Baltimore now I I -- I noted it's it's. Not a move without precedent in ironically. You know the Baltimore colts who moved to Indianapolis. But but you can't he can't go through that list and forget things like the football team. Being simply taken from the fans. It was a tremendous. Trauma. For the time.

Well who's who's the biggest -- who's the bigger villain in this been in in the science. --

Well -- is a great argument and of course I always I always say the differences. Are Art Modell was born in Brooklyn. He. Bought the browns at a time when the NFL really wasn't the NFL but the brown the that we know in terms of its its. Primary. Presidency is the American sport. And as as much as he fouled up a great organization fired Paul -- He forced Jim Brown essentially. Forced him into retirement. But put as much as he has he screwed things up. No I can't hold him to the same standard that I hope LeBron James. Who was born I know he likes to make these wonderful distinctions between Akron Cleveland. -- as if these are two entirely separate regions of northeastern Ohio. -- He's a guy who was who was born there and claim to understand the history. Who claim to understand the -- of this spans who referred to himself and and by -- by the way I've been that this is part part of what's in the book that people don't really understand. I mean I'd seen him stand with Jim brown and referred to say. And -- being a clean wonder you know this LeBron talking this is as someone asking him requested this is -- letting the fans know. That his commitment to this city. Is is a primary part. -- Self identity. And so I hold -- to a different standard and -- are both down I'd argue that the province the greater ability of the two.

Yet it's and Sammy and it LeBron seems to be a guy who who uses things when it's convenient to him. You gotta tip off when he Wear the Yankee hat to them -- playoffs here.

Up imagine if Larry -- early in his career who would certainly isn't a New England native. But if you had warned that yankees cap to Fenway Park for the opening. Of the series playoff series between the Sox and and -- the Yankees imagine. What what what would have happened and it would have profoundly affected the rest of his career if he -- managed to -- to sustain a career in Boston.

I'd -- it's it's a great point when I read that that that really they're really clicked with me. Because you're absolutely right I mean I work WEEI we have we have calls going on for days months. Years they're completely unacceptable.

Don't eat it. For a certain segment of that. You know I about the Cleveland fan base -- because of the suffering of course I hold -- I -- up as a paragon of hope. And face. And all of that stuff but you can't. You can't say that they are there more passionate. More committed or were parochial been that of Boston's then of the Sox fan and not. But all the way the situation would've handled. Would have been different because that fan base has retained his sense of itself in a sense of its city as someplace to be proud of the someplace with a certain sense of dignity. And unfortunately two generations time. And and given these overall social economic spiral of Rust Belt city likely -- not that pride and none of that dignity remain.

Yet at that leads to -- how much. There's a tough moment how much do you feel that the way the cavaliers for the city of Cleveland or both. Enabled LeBron while he was there sort of overlooked. These things and allowed him to sort of do this. Contributed. To him being able to walk away.

I I think that that's it's telling -- great requested. It's it's. -- it's it's almost unanswerable because. After raw you could ask the same thing about the lakers with a guy like Colby. You could you could I mean you could legitimately in in in some ways look at. Any team who -- depending especially in NBA team was only five starters. And any one guy can make make the difference between a championship. And maybe not a lottery but you know what upsetting and so so -- enabling that went on and I didn't realize until I got there are in basically got credentialed. I strides in the in the position of being beat reporter during LeBron -- two years before last year. That the level of dysfunction in in terms of of the team does that stop that you really didn't have to be a rocket scientist to see. But everyone else had grown accustomed to the beat to beat guys the media relations folks and the players do everything everything. Was oriented toward LeBron toward -- Brown's mom. Toward LeBron skies would like and I like to call the Akron chapter of -- maverick Carter and and and his friends. It you cannot separate that sector from the way LeBron came to believe that LeBron. Was bigger in the NBA.

If it's into -- because that was out in Cleveland during that -- nets Celtics series and it struck me but at the same time years you know when your -- guy you're kind of in that bubble. And it's you know you'll then you know you you parachuted in from Boston and you against and you say oh I guess is the way things are done here I mean they had MVP party an actor in between games one and game two of -- and I T I remember thinking like really. -- is this is this okay and I guess this is normal. You know and and just the whole notion of you know look the -- obvious I'm a veteran superstar MBA players some of them are more engaged with the media and others he certainly was not at all. And.

He was allowed to do -- and that's where another franchise. Would make more demands. That either Danny Ferry or Dan Gilbert and each one blames the other by the way I think that you know that this this and I mean that sticks out even. Even took that to -- guy from another city but. -- of course you know as well as I do it's not as if the people who covered the team critically -- media weren't aware of this discrepancy. It is who who know wanted to call BS on any of you guys always know far more than they're able to say you're right.

Right now I'd do that that's that's a really good point but no I I definitely got that sense. And I mean to me when that series is over. That was the first time and I thought oh my god he might not stay here and and yeah yeah and not -- any great insight or anything but just. Something's wrong here something is definitely wrong.

Then there's this sign this kind of course that after that that yankees cap thing I wrote about a minute for Esquire. As worthless scum. And the you know he should get his ass at a town. And the sooner the better in the end and the blowback from -- monthly orders was fierce at all.

Are all negative as far as direct did indicate he helped lead to a broad please don't listen to that pollute the Brad plays. But the signs were there I mean besides we're looking back there's signs were there because he made it known. Despite all the other Laver about being a Cleveland -- all that see everyone knew everyone in the NBA every GM new. That he he was going to be taking his free agency seriously. And and knowing that in the context of the NBA's salary structure would be advantages that were built into the last collective bargaining agreement. I I clearly looking back it wasn't just just the Boston series but you're not alone I felt that way. Even the most cynical guys that that I talked to over the course of doing the book. You know the national guys who who are parochial and anyway I it would be captured the city Cleveland I didn't hear one of them. Expressed that thought at that point that you attitudes we've -- no doubt about it at all here.

It's it's now it's as well as. Was it strange it it is strange and and it leads all these sort of talks have you know possible conspiracies in this than the other but I wanna get at this. Visceral hatred is that too strong visceral hatred for LeBron.

Yeah I think at this point at this point it's a little less visceral. -- because you know the owners and the players have decided that the last thing that they care about. Underpants. It is aside I have to watch the guys play good yeah. The first time I that this is the wind and everyone loves to cherry pick you know people who who really you know don't wanna read the book line. Think I'm insane fine. But that line about wishing a career ending injury on the kitten I mean that was definitely the debt visceral feel when I I I was in Miami on October 20 ninth. And saw him -- for the first -- take -- and -- a court. You know in in a Miami Heat uniform I'm telling you for certain type of fan and I and I have that type of thing. If you ever wish to career ending injury on an athlete aperture you really qualified to call yourself sane. Sorry you know that I honestly believe that I've been deployed to places including raiders games when they played in Los Angeles. We're that was vital. You know again and certainly in Philly I'd seen I lived there for four years. I've seen fans applaud the opposing players being carried off the field and I seen stands in certain cities applaud when all of what baker was off the field. And you don't you know what I'm saying it's absolutely true I have not the first I've may be the first got to put it in -- or whatever I'm certainly not the first. You know die hard to go guy. And you know what I love to see that got a lot of neat please.

Well I got an euphoria Roger Clements and win win when Clemens left Boston. You know I was I think -- huge pointer is just getting started I was you know answering answering phones at The Herald that the time and thank you when the day he left and I hated the guy. Hate it hurts this little. -- to top it off of course this is still in the air before the Red Sox broke through and now -- yankees are winning. World Series is winning twenty games and twilight of his career was extended to however he was able to extend it and but you know it's funny Scott is that now look at the guy and I just feel it. It's sad and pathetic what's happened it. And the way the -- I mean he's been you know he's that he's been he's been hounded by the government. It's I don't I don't wish this on. Anyone know their people your boss -- really good thrown in jail forever we should never and he should you know burn in hell this is -- seventh circle of -- and -- kind of stuff and at this point I just kind of feel sad for the guy and wish you just don't.

But but but my favorite part of the story -- a I don't disagree with that that evolution in your thinking in feeling but. There's that he was willing to throw his wife under the bus. That's just special guy that is that very special human being. Look I gotta say it and I certainly wrote it and and by the end by the end of that season by the end of last season and -- by having seen. -- the Boston series a year before it seem like a real aberration it was easy to look at his performance. In in a couple of the games and especially the end of the series when there was still time left. And the cavaliers --

We would press they would file they would rush the ball up court. It was easy to look at that is something. That was you need and you -- we see it done eating in terms of where the browns head was that vis a vis his career in Cleveland. After seeing what happened in the finals last year where he collapsed. Where he choked. Game after game after game. And cost that team with Dwyane Wade and Chris -- You know that that stack supporting casts. That that he claimed he needed and what's going to be easy. Odd to see to see him great to see him crack. In an even more dramatic fashion in the NBA finals. You know currently likely feel about bunch of stuff and not all of it was visceral hatred at all it was it was. So tragic intellectually at least even a promotional had a hard time getting there it was hard not to feel sorry for the guy.

It it to him by the way you had I think the greatest line in the book is when you describe Chris Bosh is the Eva Peron of the market without an absolute win -- but -- God out but but you're right though because I mean I remember to -- the -- NBA -- and -- it was -- founding. The way LeBron went out and it did that leads to a serious question that that people sort of -- that but it's true. That's the guy needs some sort of professional counseling deceit -- have. Some sort of issue with pressure where he can't stand up for can't stand up to it.

Well I don't I I think there is no plausible that -- ability. Of that at this point that the guy who knows -- best the longest in unity in our profession Bryant -- doors. Who's now heat index regularly is the guy who wrote a great column after after the Nazis and candidate spoke directly of that he he. -- For whatever it's -- Can talk about working on his low post game. Can talk about you know how hard all the offseason but it's it's all pocket the one thing he really needs to work on is his inability to deal with pressure. Where in the yeah it's like a really really a few years when when another team the mavericks. Got off the floor in game two after after weights three pointer and LeBron running down court. Leadership being in the end they're celebrating. And got -- From that point nine. There was no LeBron James in any recognizable form I'm hard pressed to think of a parallel in any sport we're not only that does the guy do that in the post season collapse completely. Forget who he -- forget that there's a basketball game going and a probable. But where his peers. Exhibit such utter disdain you for him debt that is. You've he committed started with Pierce's tweet last season and and it just grew and grew and glue and and clearly. -- he's aware at this point that he has probably certainly aware. That the disrespect for him among his colleagues and I I think it's mixed up -- not projecting my own visceral whatever. You know I I think guys especially the younger guys who look at what he did as a free agent is perhaps an inspiration to seize control of their professional destinies and all that but but. -- you know for for guys like DeShawn Stevenson. And Jason Terry it's good to be bullets in their best interest to talk to him in the Paper. During the final series he imagined but to look at Michael Jordan.

Absolutely not eliminate Taliban and you know it's funny because we met actually before that Celtics heat game that they -- in February.

February 13 I'll never forget -- he wore blue.

Until you hide out from Tim Donovan if I remember current -- my.

I think he would have like I can't tell you as you know the one thing that they -- media relations VP he's been with with pat Riley's since back in the next days. It went to Rutgers where platelet growth look crossed there's a lot to admire about him Donovan I'm sure but the one thing I can't would Myers he never made any pretense of his contempt.

Yes that's -- that's all I ask more from DR Leslie don't try to be my friend don't try to be buddy buddy just you know it's gonna happen is it not gonna happen fine. -- the.

And and and he's he's a guy. That I mean I've talked to people and I had a line that god knows that a -- anyone's suffering any any blow back for for anything in the book. But I like the people who knew him. In a work relationship types sense and -- and he really is not sure who linguistic barriers here in the language barriers. I he -- but you know that this guy. Is it means spirited man guy. That system that's his nature. And there was never any bridge building and -- RP -- put him in the terrible position anyway they were the legal office Tim frank the league's vice president you know from media relations. Refused to grant me this app I've I've that would Esquire fifteen years GQ for five years before that I spent. Twenty plus years writing national magazine stories including profile two guys like Dennis Rodman you know over the years. I think that establish some journalistic credibility in the NBA wouldn't grant me the same credentials they give the -- duct apes. ESPN's wires. As sort swept to a teen media relations guys in this case combative and to. Make a decision about credentialing a writer who makes I mean I have a pet to chief Wahoo well -- I'm clearly -- to -- credit again. He said at one of our first email exchanges it doesn't work in your favor that LeBron hasn't signed off -- your book. Has Psycho.

Cut cut cut cut and no kidding. Fiat and died at that smile yes. But while he had that Celtics game actually struck me and I was convinced the Celtics are gonna beat them in the playoffs because. They beat them in a game in February and they had like the Celtics had like 77 players healthy I remember correctly and Rondo spent the entire time. Getting under their skin. Ducking into their huddles laughing at them essential. And I really thought if of all the teams in the league the Celtics were going to be the one that had the you know that had the balls to do it. And you know then they ran into their own problems at its its its its interest staying. The way but I think they set a blueprint for other teams as you mentioned you UK and try to intimidate the heat and it might work.

If if the Celtics in I know there is gonna sound like sour grapes whether to use saying it. You know it's a Boston guy whether it's me as a so called -- you but clearly by the time the playoffs. Rolled around. You know it's -- the Celtics. Whether you want stated that global way that they worry you're too old. Or or or simply acknowledged that. They were banged up they they they were counting on guys Danny Ainge made portable trade however are we want a president this Celtics team. They kicked the key stats. Throughout throughout the regular season was not the same Celtics team literally was not the same -- That that took the court against the men and and but to give credit where credit is due right up until. It came to the end of game two of the Celtics series they -- were Roland.

They work. There -- and you know and in the Celtics played just know that the worst basketball the worst time it. There's one guy there I -- I would talk about is you had a variance some revelation that's on the book and Escalante -- somebody I've known for a long time and oh yeah -- Cleveland and you know there was the the rumor about Delonte in the Bronx mom. You you ran that down you tracked down that rumor and -- very interesting revelation. Or intonation about where you saw that rumor might have come from.

Low low and it didn't Begin with -- mean generating the idea it was fairly early. Last season. Where I was trying to build bridges to some of the guys who. Who have been forgotten more about the NBA in Africa and now you guys who've been writing about it for years guys talked agents in GM's every day. And -- guys who were kind enough to share some of their thoughts and some of the information. That would help me get up to speed. And one of the things when I was trying to track down with a -- west Gloria Jean's story. Was well 11 of the guys that one of the guys I trusted most because he has. Absolutely as good as it gets in terms of writing about the -- he. Says he hit it hurt not been confirmed but it hurt the maverick Carter with Brown's friend and manager. Was the one who started the whole Delonte West Gloria James River. To explain help help build a smokescreen. Of some kind. For how poorly LeBron play list at the end of the of the Boston Cleveland playoff series. But in game two and and you know there was a team party that that's been confirmed by several sources. After that that University of Akron MVP -- ceremony between skated between games wanna do there was departed a lot of going all Biden to the next day. That would ever happen at that party in the most credible thing I ever heard although I couldn't confirm it in about what. And a female friend of the lot days had nothing to do with laureate James but when I heard this. For from the writer about the -- maverick. Had floated this river I thought I had never heard anything silly here in 20. The mavericks -- final would one day on ESPN two after the browns collapses. Again. I hear you know I -- Chris Broussard and Stephen -- Our guys that could that that never occurred talks to. All of a sudden they're not. They're not say they're saying things like well even if I do that because I couldn't confirm it because it really has nothing to do with basketball. But there are things going with someone close to -- time and they're not naming names but they're talking I mean he could. It's not even. Pseudo journalism. It's a couple of guys sitting around doing maverick Carter is -- it from my point of view it was that afternoon that the rumors about. The brand's longtime girlfriend the mother of his two sons Savannah Branson. And being sexually involved with Rashard Lewis. And all of a sudden I'm remembering what the guys said the year before. The reporter who told me it hurt the map it was a -- talking about Gloria and Delonte it was like what oh.

And yes we could spend we spent a half hour talking about about as you sit back in chapter of Mensa. But it's butts. Of one Al -- bring -- back to you because to me as a writer. This was the most compelling parts of the book was view laying bare your life and things have happened to you. In relation to Cleveland in relation to your to your your your mission is to -- out. And you know I mean honestly Scott we were talking -- but that that's very brave thing to jail as a writer. And I'd just -- you know with did you did you have any compunction about about laying this all out there.

Well. Yes yes and no. I didn't know what what the book was gonna be even after the decision. And I thought to some degree I would be talking to a lot of different Cleveland fans in getting their stories. -- that that that happens a little bit of that left. But really 1 of the central questions from me the game. I have not every and no sand is everything and have but I am a die hard Cleveland -- and India people upset well you -- yeah I move no one believed me. Don't want suffered any economic or spiritual. Wounds because I left Cleveland in 1984. I mean I was aggressive you know it's not comparable situation. But when it comes to the Cleveland teams I've been living and dying with those teams. Were from my whole life in and so. I want it that kind of come to terms and myself with. How did I come to be the type of fans who would wish for career ending injury. Modifying an aptly. How did I did that have. Because I really wasn't sure what I said and tried to think about it and the other the other thing was that. I could talk to people who have been through. Their own version of the decision. But there really wasn't any wind I knew. Old enough to have seen. The browns win that championship in 1964. I was twelve I was there I remember what it felt like I remember Cleveland it was the seventh largest city. In the country but nobody talked about the mistake on the lake and nobody thought ill of themselves because they were they were -- orders. It just it just to see that happen. That took a person of a certain age and then there you know there's just -- people are free to say you know paris' sister would but there is that tendency. I think for some writers who feel comfortable working in the third person you know is the voices. Of an omniscient guide you and other writers who really tend toward the first person which I do strongly. At certain points when it came time to. You know cut a little closer to the -- I also had to own up to. The connections to the extent I believe there is one and I believe there is one between my own my own. Biography or autobiography. And the fanaticism. You the extreme stand and so. It just it just seemed to work best that way but it wasn't very conscious than it was in the case of I'm going to summon up all my courage or anything like that it was interest it just it it happened kind of organically again.

Now with it was a cathartic in north therapeutic at all. To put that out there.

Yeah I think I well we'll see no outside of my mother's -- canceled her pre orders. And as saying that she's not gonna compromise on permits for a double that it would certainly cathartic for -- You know I think I think it was it was therapeutic. Put. It's very hard for me -- hope because. You know the browns suck. And have the Indians. -- looked in really. -- good long term despite. Their their. There's straits. In terms of their front office which is that they're not -- stupid front office yet they keep making the same mistakes over and over again. And so I'm not sure that that simply writing a book. Gets me where I -- I told Dan Gilbert over the -- the first time we've met. I can't. Think of free throw what was blocked a shot. I can't help this team do anything I just watch it now. Going forward. I would much rather have a Cleveland team with a championship that right bestselling book. And anyone who wants to copy yes and I can feel free to do it I know that it's true so I gotta say well I think it was therapeutic. To write the book it was certainly therapeutic. To be at the American Airlines Arena on June 12 and watch the Dallas efforts to feed the heat for the FBA championship. But the catharsis is so we're gonna come what I find out what it feels like 4050 however many years later Berkeley went into the --

That's that that that's fair and you know I'll wrap this up with this you you read the book no spoilers here -- opponents but -- in the book with -- line which is you know. Part is the only thing that makes it mean anything. In talking about LeBron about how how this has been easy. For him how he thought it was gonna be easy yep and now it's can get hard to get really really hard. And you obviously you know you. If you're talking about Cleveland -- you have -- heart and so when you get these successes than they mean something more. Do you think you can learn that lesson you want him to.

Well I think he's young enough and talented enough to learn it 21 -- actually I hope he plays -- can stay healthy. If not in my control their their people who it is because we were we shot a series of videos we upload the first one. Yesterday. Of the visiting with Brown's home to drop opera. Adding that they keep the heat in the in the -- were scheduled to play. I'd November 18 of course they're there and I was gonna deliver a book too bad I wanna make sure got a copy and I signed it with gratitude for making this book possible. But. You know I don't ever want to see when and BA championship lord knows I don't ever want to see that happen. You know --

I mean I think you can. Seeing everyone remembers that that coming out party that the he's held that day. Ridiculously to strip club. And and -- brought afterwards everyone remembers that not four not five not six but before that. Before that say YouTube clip that -- the whole thing. He was talking about how easy it's going to be that Pat Riley could come back and play pointers that's how he would keep his seat Dwyane Wade staring sideways in Dwyane Wade won a championship. I don't know of any guy in any sport. Has ever. Made any kind of claim that it would be easy because it may -- I don't care what your field of endeavor is you wanna get to the top. It's a long hard struggle I don't know that the brought even begins diplomats around the brought accountable for anything LeBron does that is in great.

Yeah no I mean you first saw that that doing with a bronze. Relationship is one of the most interesting dynamics. Go forward and yet we talk to the Celtics that was the same thing Ali a Garnett Allen appears it'll be easy this doesn't tell I had. You know what I heard he talking during the year about how no one knows the struggles we've gone through like bosh and what kind of stuff like public does you know. Thousand miles of the north can pretty much understand what you guys are going through right now and and they will tell you that it was a -- Cingular.

Well the because it is that it's not that they're patting themselves on the back for doing it it's because. What -- and this is what I don't understand that mean I think Pat Riley is living embodiment in some ways of of read -- not really. About standard the same type of character but there they're patient. You know really enables them to put things together in -- way that their peers just don't seem able to do. And so -- imagine that the the cognitive dissonance. That that a guy like LeBron creates when he talks that crap. And Pat Riley is listening to it who who's got separate titles as player and coach. I think it's absurd to me that a professional athletes. Who has been following sports as long as LeBron has been who's always been a front runner prudent for the effort yankees -- the Dallas Cowboys and it when he was a kid in Akron. I mean does he really think that it's easy to win championships it is. My -- what could be further from reality and what could be a better. I think -- better indicator of of his of his inability to grasp the essence. Of what it takes for -- human being to reach the top it's not what you think about.

You know I always -- around -- huge mistake and sun all those old guys this year brought Oakley back.

Oak that's basically what got a couple don't know seriously though it -- that guy. Easy yeah right.

Exactly. Sky -- the book is the -- backer and everyone should read it put aside your free can your your your preconceived notions one way or the other and read this book because it's. It's fascinating thrilling it's a great read and to meets it's the book -- the NBA year is whether we have a season or not Scott thanks so much for join -- really appreciate it.

Thanks for having Meehan thanks for being so kind -- that's not yet but all right good luck.