Talking Hoops featuring Michael Holley & Kevin Arnovitz

All right welcome to episode three of the talk hoops podcast on your host Paul Flannery. On the show today we're going all Miami Heat all the time we've got Kevin art of its slate editor of the heat index from espn.com. And as always Michael Holley and Michael are gonna break down LeBron James while they hate people. We're gonna bring that down burst up here's my conversation Kevin joining me on the phone Kevin art of its good friend of mine formally. From Los Angeles now down to Miami site editor of the heat index Kevin how are you my friend. I'm doing very well. I'm -- let's start with last night strange game weird game. Actually saw the fourth quarter what happened last night in Miami where -- with Utah. Here. And. Oh it was pretty incredible -- -- his -- -- com on route 46 points. And it you don't see. Exploited -- and power -- position. All but then it was beyond this sort -- -- -- pop and they can rule Iran that they're going to direct and career -- winners. At the -- it is in for the closing minutes of that. Games and it would offer 46 point. I don't want ecology of pollute commute upstate incredibly well and incredibly recently. Opportunity to wait to -- -- time but. -- all built up. And did you sort of poses questions that will. See how the interior presence to stop guys like. Know when when when their don't. At that it was crazy because -- as larceny and actually the sound off and I was like who is this guy channeling dale Ellis right now is -- Paul -- know they can't keep Paul Millsap. And then yeah I turned on -- I saw the graphic it was Paul Millsap knocking to have threes from all over the court. I purchase say an eight you don't wanna write off to the -- -- obviously good team but it felt Saluki. The way that the way that come back happened in the way Millsap takeover there. Is there. Any kind of a concern going on -- Miami right now with. That they've been through it three times they've lost they've been against good point guards. Rajon Rondo Chris Paul Deron Williams and teams with good interior games -- is that sort of the blueprint if you will suit to beating the Miami team. I think to some extent it is I would say the interior thing we're in the point -- mom. Only because. -- they have the capacity to -- to wave it it will put games away on any opposing point guard. And I -- -- last what eight double. There Williams and then they did so earlier accurately you're down the stretch to escalate lobbed the ball well built up what air -- he'd want to. Why. Do you think. I hear you're seeing it which interior. It's just. It's just that they can they are so strong amber and they can -- so quickly around -- sensibly but -- is that. There's a base but even the best defense is up to sacrifice right ball move the basketball court after the people. That's sort of that that's very nature of the beast. And it's finding its way inside. Com you don't want it to war and I don't get to get into crystal got an incredible can't even start. Was Okafor. If it David West combined for 35. Local a lot of does happen on a on top situation room and so I -- purchase goods. Every cheap -- -- defense. You know it it's it's -- I -- and days. In the immediate -- Surely satisfy their technical piece of congress nobody satisfied with the pickle because the whole NBA fans at the carrier repeat because we. You know when you're giving up thirty by local -- speak. You know when you're giving up 46 point although. I think. Sort of have to look and say what is it about the opposition for. Power forwards that. Caught in any difficulty in -- region that addiction how do we. Right right well yeah and that is why have you on because timely political references are are are always welcome on the -- podcast. But this leads me into the next thing Chris Bosh. How much of this is gonna follow Chris Bosh that's awesome some frankly of what they were strange quotes. Earlier in the week where he was talking about how he's not -- you know it's not fitting any still kind of struggling to find him find himself and he's not sure where. Chris Bosh. She issued this was that obviously gonna happen but it it's coaster -- surprise me that it's happening so early. What is going on with Chris Bosh. Don't keep -- there's a question which is which is you know the quote you refer to restraint which is the guy is actually been very contraction. -- is sort of slowness to -- in the system. And Bill Cohen is just right I think it is is in the stretch that you can export to say much -- It is still sort of fighting the system means we think system I think there's is that the -- -- -- -- -- -- all been to war. But how much all of our right now a lot of conversation I think it's starting to hear the words salt circus. Omnia bought himself is saying that the game has to back. I think it ought to remember -- that -- Or seven years in Toronto. It was a system designed to maximize every and -- -- critical role it was about. And there's a very particular rhythm I think it can't fault they're like are developed when he's. I don't -- -- and the way people ought to ban on the street by that -- at large almost every officer that. Is in Toronto was eager to -- to get off the ball where he wanted to -- where he could school work order to leverage the defense is attention. -- -- -- -- -- -- Where and when they can score. -- don't know you're trying to pick rolled over on -- end point weight on balance -- should be an advantage. Because what it means it's gotta -- this is not a collapse on. In double team Chris Bosh you know where -- -- Calderon Bostick rolled it up to worry more about change. I don't think it's a certain adjust. -- -- sort of -- in that respect and I'm gonna defending bought him a little more concerned with. Popping up it out in. -- -- are not overly. Concerned about. Oh yeah and I but I. The I think with -- -- is that he seems to be overly concerned and you you cities confessional. You know whether things earlier in in training camp talking to a number of the Celtics -- sort cryptically. Said without saying. These guys are gonna have to make adjustments. And third in the adjustments are not necessarily on the floor of the adjustments are more mental. In terms of exactly what you just brought up where they go from a situation where they were clearly the number one number two number three number four option. In their respective offices to a situation where they work. And without saying it -- most the Celtics are two veteran too smart to actually comment saying it. I think the consensus was bosh is gonna have to figure something -- because he's not going to be the guy at 2515. Now. If he's not putting up -- guy if he's not the guy putting up those kind of numbers. And he handled the inevitable criticism which may be unfair but the inevitable criticism that's gonna come his way. When his numbers drop is is that is that something that's that's out there. Yeah I think it definitely out there especially in the restroom at every press elbow you know bosh is sort of emerged as one of the I think prevailing subplot. In the very noisy conversations is that it. You know what -- -- You know -- saw problem was to get over. You know well it's -- that we -- 120 ports and are -- about to break every you know that there are sort of the battery. -- -- -- evidently world certainly that were weighed in Italy world periodically. LeBron James. Com. -- I do think. I expect our winning that we care that they start winning. And he's pulling down get accurate -- -- goals. I think everyone you know losses sacrifice that provided that. Opposing powerful group of 46 point. Bombs or or that the big net and ordered -- Birdie Putt that I I think everybody will say well you much better defender that we realize that you cookie editor people realize like I did you think that Kelly -- For the watch and a law is back I'd say with a workable where Hugo is garment and he's making assists Sunnis he's creating space for the other guy should be doing in order to maintain waiter or product that. And believe. -- despite three you're losing to OB team of losing them you know at losing the -- before production. Ready -- The criticism going to be. Winning winning always covers for everything doesn't. It is it is it is really -- you can you can describe any kind of attributes you want to somebody when when the team's winning and the reverse when they're losing. Yeah I think that's gonna be a fascinating thing and but I am curious to. I saw a quote from Spoelstra the other day that the the Celtics game felt like it happened last summer. You know and it was only what two weeks ago when the whole world was converging on Boston for the opening night. What has happened to this team. You know up until last night the what does happen to this team since they left Boston you mention that there at the at the top. You know in most the defense of categories. They were the winning games they obviously lost in the world's game. How have they been coming together sensed the Celtics game. You know I think you're just sort of pro early are dead weight -- -- -- alternating does. What you -- we saw that certainly not an opening night that you saw that. Stretches. In the in the wee bit on followed and then having conflict. The world and game they were getting -- offensive. Efficiency the second half and look really good. Army stormed back in a -- at the start apple. -- sort of you know that that that that the weapons that the weight gain. Or spoke -- You know we saw it again it was called target you know. Troubled river of USA Austria actually hear the notion that they would just turns dominating the all it would actually. -- Maximize each other's presence or to generate shots for the themselves the other. And India as sort of tilting the the defense making the deepest issues. Added. In between to a whether it could rule on opposite sides or anecdotes that -- -- -- overused term -- What would sort of circus and it got two we got a quick or was referring to. You know again last night B. -- they did find all that well the first half com. They got complacent but I think that's sort of happened -- industry is sound straight to say that aren't we keep it girl better at work. Opening up against Boston. Yeah and you could I mean it's you could tell that that wade wasn't quite himself that night you know certainly certainly credit the celtics' defense as much as he won and I generally do you put. You can tell he was still sort of you know working himself back into shape and so sort of finding himself there. The two of them together it. You know if we strip away all all the stuff that people have to say about Miami and how they how they came together. Seemed to Dwayne wade LeBron James on the same team this is is is an exciting concept. And it seems like it's when these things it's gonna take time to develop our day those glimmers are are they're they're starting to happen I take. It and -- -- and adult the united it's sort of apology from -- to get and I think. You know they rank. It ought to be extremely difficult principally. Italy even though again they could pick up some of that was there would -- bought last night. Com analogue board out of jail they're part -- Out big and and then you know watching all of that. Better is. Two career record for reeks of arm. Like you know it is it is you do see these corporate and I think that I organize ought to help to get expert. You know from all the rely. On events that -- of worship the -- I think this separately. Them -- you watch what the Celtics. And it even it -- That at the sort of -- out in the notwithstanding. -- -- You can tell what you are watching a basketball. That is essentially played together at the -- circle here or or a large portion that. So and it just looks different. And we -- Los Angeles Lakers right now watch the Boston Celtics right now even when you watched David West and Chris Paul there's a certain. Rhythmic efficiency that happens is we have seen -- And individuals have played together and you know sort of Malcolm Gladwell theory of how many times as. David -- Chris Paul Roland. Arctic role in the game situation. It happens probably on -- Part company -- games this season or are you who don't get to the map is. -- Democrat. But and doubt right right how tribes have Chris Bosh LeBron James -- situation where one side. I doubt about it you know and I just think that. No we commit your strengths weaknesses -- -- -- is just for -- speakers don't substitute for rent but why even in each. Like. The Celtics and to some extent but lakers can just subsist and prosper. And -- flourish on the strength the fact that we all know where each like to get the ball where they liked -- to all. We know. -- tendencies. It's just. In an air earlier. There -- certain civil war that allows. -- -- Yeah yeah -- -- Rondo had a path the united Chicago. On Friday night where he he threw bounce passed down down in the post and when he threw it I didn't see -- in there and waited it connected pierce was there for a lamp. And asked him about that did you know long after the game. And I said you know he threw that pass it to look like there's -- when there and he -- and if you've been around Rondo he gave me that look and said oh he was there. Andy says he said you just don't see them before I -- A just a classic Rondo thing to say but at the same time I mean we derive those guys. Win when -- -- -- as the data rhythm is generally with a guy who hasn't been on you know on the -- much who's in the wrong place you're supposed to have these weird turn -- where. They -- it to throw the ball completely out of bounds and it's not because the guy making -- -- made a bad place because the guy was throwing too isn't there he expected him to you there. So there is that familiarity and -- cares about you know how. How does he feel about about the Celtics because I know you know in early in camp Bronson you know the road to the East -- through Boston which -- Yes or the politically correct thing to say but how. You what's the feeling down there about the Celtics. I think this morning well. Forty hours ago. Just because. In the region and in. A lot of respect -- I don't think teams. Italy like Austin -- I think we're I think. I would yet. On the back. Hole in the players. There's sort east paper collection of individuals now. Just in terms of sort of it edit edit edit edit content share -- -- That he disliked Austin so I'm sure -- that are. Currently. Load enterprise -- in that respect that comes to. And I think it probably comes with these guys. As optical. That would you know debate. -- -- -- Based on. We -- to -- intangible and you know they can look at a team like a habit which. We wanna be able to throw passes and you know. Abuses we can't -- this sort of Rondo pierce played much your account right -- -- -- -- I don't care how to put that at that sort of play it bored out of familiarity if you are all there but. Miami sees itself as a team that. It would probably does jail. Will be able to exercise as telepathy on the floor but I think there's a great deal deference and -- should. Often those deeper -- ground right now what might be opening night yeah baby sort of lady that. Level of familiarity cohesiveness they think the Miami knows that's really what they need to which it. ID -- are acutely aware that most talented team in the week end up and I can -- -- -- probably felt acutely edit those who sort of. Nor bite them. And be arrogant thing. Well it's our. Right quote it -- student. And principal resign. And there is content to cheer individual out. That's starting at either -- 08 steal. Right right. Yeah it's it's it's it's funny with the Celtics he mentioned you Mississippi which is that demo of lot of teams don't like and I that's yeah that's obvious when when you hear the way other teams thought about the but I thought last year that was something the Celtics sort of were missing. In that they -- quite the bully on the block anymore and when they started to pick it up back in the playoffs that's exactly what they became. And that's when they play with that kind of with that kind of I'd swagger is over used term politically with the kind of swagger. That's. That's when their best stuff gets brought out and that's you know frankly the way they kind of need to play. And so I -- it I'm fascinated to see this game on Thursday night because I think it's gonna be of really interest in early season -- much more interesting in the opener. -- -- About you know where are these two teams I've I've been encouraged obviously by what I've seen from the Celtics this year the snippets of Miami have been impressed by other than. Other than the sort of collapsed last night and I really feel like that this is going to be a sort of really good early season marker for both these two teams -- I don't think you can even read too much into this one which I normally don't say that are really think this is going to be one of those games where you say okay. Here's where we are and here's where we need to yeah. You know it's so. It talks because I think. Part of your job my job. To. Read truth of this -- it. Ends. Oh. Amber. How are you dumping all over my theory Kevin -- that's. Here at issue. Los Angeles. On the or. -- lakers top rhetoric Chris. And and they were just a couple games or a hundred or. What 51213. Games and and the world you know in Orlando was sort that are. Happening here and and sure enough and I right -- within. We're gonna remember this of course I think it definitely -- that they actually last winter and spring was what it -- to not have. It did you know there was no possible way to sort skated into the -- And what was the occasion. To digging deep -- it away or. She. Wasn't good. Right so one end. I'm excited. To see I'm excited to see. You know and encountered a circus went to Beijing's point of course of that. The other hand I'm also practical. Way. Will we see in terms of the debate airing on a potential. Series Bailey. Com. But I think and -- could. Go and watch the C you know now. They could stand. On -- -- addict without a doubt I'm I'm I'm interested to see any professional staff prepares itself. For -- later than usual. It is dynamic as it around so that and that respect -- -- -- -- -- I did not gonna. -- Miami from a popular extrapolate anything overly meaningful at a at a Boston. -- Ryan got another victory in just shut them down. I think we can take was about eight their defensive blueprint stop my right are. And and they will be properties. Of that performance that we can take forward well usually it in attacked bosh. Or just really -- due out off strong pressure defense team but you know what you really should be more mindful weeks I'd just. Cause -- edging up -- court. And can't -- my true there like that interest but I just don't think. Tomorrow night. To. -- early -- bureau always so so so you know clear headed. Realistic about everything but I got to ask you this because this is then president getting any attention of people here Boston. Crowds in Miami. Have not. It's awesome -- seat at the end of the game. When I was down there for the playoffs last you know that was not a great Miami Heat team they -- you know forty something games and there were a lot of expectations. During the playoffs last year Miami was also the -- the NFL draft and the the media attention of several media members they're not not so much to be writers but the people who crucial for playoff games. With like 99%. About the fourth -- the NFL draft and 1% about whatever was happening on the court. Miami's football -- And I'm just curious. Has the city taken into heat are the into the heat what can we read from the crowds as it just. You know that's that's certainly an imperfect analogy but -- If you look here are saying and you know this -- sort of you know the way the way we are here in the northeast is that is that maybe doesn't deserve this team -- really care what is in the reaction of the city of Miami to this basketball team. You and I could do our. -- Condo -- You know old northeastern. Rust -- Sort of sports fan bases because I think you know the having grown up in Atlanta another city to connect. It takes apart -- a playoff game could upgrade and it dynasty. I don't I air pockets of Miami. And these -- then. You know who didn't group cycling career numbers actually in the barbershop -- -- discovered here that -- to have a lot to do their football. You know you walk and talk. Their talk they got they got. There wouldn't -- sort of about how. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- RYL. I don't think I think there's a certain to ocean that it Sunbelt city patents to. You know the team that arrives first it way to Phoenix which is actually a lot like Miami or to. I think -- still -- out there like some sort of first born child. And went before the city considered legitimate. As fertile ground for pro sports franchise. In -- recognized that first and I think it will always be. And in doing devotion to that team for that reason bomb even though in being a whole not nearly as. Interesting I think the larger and -- and I think I'd still be immutable peaks sport you go out there you know I think about it. All the everyday right more debate that it's a little projecting and I realize it yet it took a all wore the sports landscape and yeah people talk about. -- trap door or pre season. You know probably it will all work pretty important Friday -- mavericks. -- on local television are. But I figure it out there is that I'll actually a secret interesting I. Got a market where historic mark. In most markets. Your average stepped up customer base people selling tickets on Internet is 6% regular folks who got extra seats. Because we can't go that side of the donor -- about it recital or order took. In 40% seller unstoppable all our speculate. Professional brokers to buy tickets. By a couple of weeks after the Celtics are mavericks over the next whoever it is. And yeah. In the -- on the premise that. Yeah but so -- seat on the back a little money and keep a few tickets I'd have to take a law. -- in Toronto. But I don't -- -- it's a compliment. Split 6040 regular folks -- -- In Miami. 7030 the other way low of seventy it's sort of speculative COLT to the same -- it was a housing market. 70% of -- our sellers in the Miami market. People not stand -- regular people what people have swooped and bought it and think it's the idea that. You know I can actually convict gains this year point eight games especially once we get it. And only 30% are joke so -- it was this sort of stock. That's that's the sort of amazing actually it is an. That's something. I mean it it until they treated their a lot of really good it does not. Mean Europe Bostonians. I mean he did even being from Atlanta -- other. PPP the crackers the sort -- -- Very unfortunately. That's what I would certainly see there. From Austin in the program. And -- Red -- -- And -- I think generations. To really really. Here and yeah. Out came in compared to a crowd at the eastern city like York. Compared it'll actually -- yet. -- Those fondle -- believe that a branch in twenty years. Yeah twenty years the satellite. -- It really is we think about it and I want you to do this feature a what you define indicated. In in in Key Biscayne or somewhere down in Miami who grew up with a with a poster Johnson albums wall. Anger out you know -- -- -- that Willie Burton was the answer to the franchise's prayers and Alec Kessler was gonna solve the big man problem. I want you to find their kid -- is the secret they're doing today. Because I bet that there is that somewhere up in the upper deck at maybe games. Kevin thank you so much for the time to talk to you all day though -- -- -- it's practice and I'll see you when you come back to bust the I. Act on banks. Talking hoops. Michael -- once again. Michael we've been talking about this off the air for the last month or so that doctor and the doctor flattered that off manner. Yeah yeah him. Not yet. The issue of LeBron James and why why. So much hate. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Theory for seemingly go back and forth -- -- the commercial that he put out right for the currencies. Where he asked the question what's. What's it should I be who you want me to be. -- if you saw the response from the Cleveland people. They had their response was we wanted you to be who we thought you work. Here's my theory. He doesn't know -- we don't know who use we have no idea who this guy is we've seen. You know we've seen some stuff about him from high school we've seen commercials he is. He is rarely done anything genuine where we said oh that's who LeBron James is the very first genuine thing he did. With signing with Miami and it freaked everybody -- I don't know -- -- make it a genuine thing if you go back to is a go back to high school of you mentioned that. Okay he was in. He was in the district. For a predominately. African American school in. In Akron called booked a high school now I grew up in Akron Ohio I will tell you this book -- high school was -- Howard University. Of of -- it was like a historically black college about it at the high school level. And I'll tell you. I've -- -- there as a black man young black man. Brooke had the most beautiful women could have -- athletic and everybody wanted to go. Mum -- with the I know you're not going to book you're going to saint Vincent saint Mary high school so it is completely different situation. Probably 97%. White compared to 97% black from book to private school versus public school the whole dynamic credit wanna go. -- wanna go there I wanted to go to wanted to have fun my mom's a million ago in the study which I did that unless it when you're there anyway. But he went he shows. Same it's the same Mary. Overbooked or because his friends were going to -- -- the same area. Is not a clue that's your first clue he was going with his friends he is we've always described him as. A great player which he is. A leader kind of kind of a leader. But not a leader who needs that he would be one of those leaders there's there's certain leaders and a company who are sick of this is the way it's gonna go. I'm gonna sit -- head of the table the company has got to do it this way LeBron James would be one of those leaders where there's a round table. He might be sitting in the had spot at the roundtable. He might be sitting in the secondary spot at the table he makes a decision. But on the way he's getting feedback from a lot of people so he is not one of these. Visionaries. This is the way I see it and everybody's gonna follow me. We suggesting that a long time ago we chose to ignore the fact they had all of his friends around in Cleveland with this marketing company. Yet another thing I'm gonna go my friend and then leading up to the decision which it was a bad decision on. But leading up to do the decision in Miami what you do pig goes to play with his friends once again so Cleveland. He was. What you've done to us I think what throws them off -- Paul. Is that he held the MVP press conference at the University of Akron. That he had a book with -- missing -- on Akron and how great it is insane it's the same area high school is in his teammates and there's a documentary on that. So I think people look at that all the shout out to Akron. And northeast Ohio and -- it of course that's who this guy is he's gonna come back here. That's that's a really interesting thing and I wanna I wanna get your take on this the difference between Akron Cleveland is I was out Cleveland for the playoffs. As state and Akron which is about what half an hour 45 -- yeah well -- 35 but 35 -- 3030 days it's not degrees analogy but it's kind of Worcester. Does it to Cleveland if it's it's not Cleveland. You know -- have originally -- it's not even like Worcester in I heard. Senator Max Cleland and court way on a radio couple weeks ago. And now maxis and Norton way. Packers -- Cleveland. In our board way Dickerson since I was just like hey is that going from here -- to -- it is an it is an. I'm -- -- regional dynamics. And in every area. And and in that area it's a strange -- Akron is. Like a little. Like a little brother. To Cleveland of people in Cleveland. That may be job up to dissuade -- Cleveland and Akron are the same when it's convenient for Cleveland. Right so was convenient for Cleveland. That Akron was the same because LeBron James Lewis from Akron. But every other day of the week you throw LeBron James up pupil in Cleveland don't think about Akron Akron thinks about Cleveland but it's not vice Versa. So. It it is a it's a small city it's not a small town I mean Akron back in the day had about the 475000. People. In a pretty good size at Citi announced lost tons of people now probably not 175000. But that's its own city its own issues its own strengths. Its own weaknesses so I think a lot of people in Akron their many people and Akron even -- thirty miles away but don't go to Cleveland. They don't socializing Cleveland their friends are not there they don't shop there they do other stuff and Akron. So I understand what it what would LeBron James is saying there's a difference between Akron Cleveland although they're only thirty miles away. Yet it's it's interesting I think with LeBron now they were of the same mind that he's taken too much criticism. There's been too much hate even if you will I mean guys make decisions ultimately what is it that athletes always have always felt that athletes those performance. Accountability. And if we're lucky a little bit personality. What does an athlete all us when I was in Cleveland so these billboards of abroad through the evolution from young player through through high school through college and it was like. The implication of these billboards was weak all and you wreck and that -- that sort of struck me a little. -- to a -- pretty fed into it a bit as a sip before with the whole with the -- saying in the press conference saying I love the city I love Akron and he's always talked about. -- talked about the area. So. Look -- Austria should never think that they own a professional athlete but he did kind of leave them on a little bit news. You madam I didn't do you could lead off before Paul flattery to let -- he'd let them buy it and then. He decide to look like if he had just left. I think it would be bad but it wouldn't be bad nationally with a TV show -- really show that shows you know. The show did a hell of a lot but it is something else that has developed from the decision. And this is our connector a psychic powers ask it every week I can't counts count noddle Mexicans can. Can I use any kind of explicit. Imagery yes yes. Okay but it might be cussing elected parliament suspended just dance around us and we think of -- to think percent to recycle -- it is okay. This is a OK hop artists use your imagination. This is a Dicks Dick thing. This has become a big stick saying -- -- -- with athletes because I hear so many people say athletes say it. And fancy. Couldn't they couldn't win on his own right he could do it he had to go to somebody else's. Team. So now it's not just about LeBron James leaving to go to Miami. It's you couldn't do it on your own you'll need help so busy busy testosterone. Male thing this is the same reason men don't ask for directions so yeah -- I can't. -- well. And -- I don't know I donated a GPS I don't need you to tell me that I should've made all right I'm going on -- It's this whole stubborn. Male thing the fact that LeBron James really if you look at it it's really beautiful story. With if you take out all the noise. Unfortunately LeBron James of the -- to become become a part of the story he took less money right. To play with a couple of other superstars and guys are finding out now one other super -- and one other guy who. That the currency didn't transfer from candidate to the US. 85 dollars -- arrive at about sixty guys recognize 68 cents for Chris Bosh. So he did that. And that really annoyed at -- that's the thing that annoyed. People as much as as that this is decision that he went he's a superstar. Didn't wannabe that -- on his own. -- -- go play with Dwyane -- do you do that Michael wouldn't -- it later he wouldn't use that magic wouldn't do that. Nevermind the fact that they all came into the league with selfless. Nevermind that -- Shepard Jordan Jordan did. George and in the magic came -- league. Whose honesty and oh. -- seat multi time it's a multi MVP of the league it's Korean medal to my gut I wanna do what any gay ticker Kareem Abdul -- ninety. And Jordan never Jordan never won and you commit the argument -- -- does not grant until Pippen came into was and grip and grin. Andy Armstrong and then Rodman who gets Yugoslavia conveniently left out yeah -- -- -- that I'm not sure. Now this time around I think he he could've done it without -- in the first time. You know he needed he needed those guys have been in the same draft class she had Pippen and grant it's pretty damn good draft class and made a trade for Pippen. They re all these guys an and you have Joe Jackson right coaching in my whole lot lots of things go go you thought gore right. The Ron has never had -- coach. -- may not be I don't know I don't know I don't know if he's ever had a great coach. He -- great teammates truly great great players. Like Michael Jordan. Had great -- Dennis Rodman dammit he did one thing but he is great player. Scottie Pippen was a great player. Who woods who was the bronze -- Carlos Boozer early maybe Carlos -- before he you know grew into himself. What Larry Hughes and that was when Williams one Mo Williams when a grown man named booby at a. -- absolutely call public and up last night LeBron James and this is. In this is what amazed me about. Okay over a four season stretch. He got the -- cavaliers to the NBA finals. It's -- it's horrendous team wasn't it. What that the games but he got the NBA finals on his back they had Donyell Marshall on that team they had. Eric's don't want that team. They didn't have Mo Williams in nineteen -- that they don't build up in every sixers cast -- on that yet is so so they get to the NBA finals. Fifty wins. Two seasons after that they have 66 wins. And the season after that last year they had 61 wins I'll make the case. Then nobody else no other player in the NBA. Could've had a four -- stretch like that with the Cleveland Cavaliers if you take away LeBron James and you insert. Kobe Bryant this Kobe Bryant had that for years stretched. With the cavaliers LeBron and yet it's your search through what forty games of this Laker team so let let let's wrap this Michael I asked you -- as a human. Big talk on we could tell how much rather talk to you -- At. You've heard it here first. I hope some other people with -- Michael people need to get over themselves with a broke don't know get no I don't think so let it seemed to -- well. We're we're talking logically. We're talking logically and we just looking back and at the dynamics of it but. Ultimately. It's it's random it's it's wouldn't. It's what makes sports interest being you know you got villains and got a hero's and you have people projecting. Their own issues. On on to athletes and onto gains and it was a little neurotic but I enjoyed it. So yeah keep doing whatever you do if your LeBron James and keep being LeBron James Sandra LeBron James hater. As long as your not taken it to the racial level which some people did on the winner of this but if you just don't like them can you feel like he abandoned his hometown or. He turned his back on the Cleveland Cavaliers took a typical and it's fun. I guess so that's gonna have to do for the time we will talk about note this all and we need one day we need to sit down just talk for real for lack. -- -- -- -- A I used circled Celtics going to be on -- -- -- in that totally -- podcast going to be on -- and you've been on before myself page jury so. There's no pun it's all ready. -- gonna have -- back I'm Michael Holley is though is that you so much appreciate the time. Thanks for joining us on the -- who was podcast undergoes all -- Episode three was ably produced by the great big game James Stewart with technical assistance from Colin MacDonald join us again next time we'll see that.