Will Carroll, Baseball Prospectus

I told you we'd be back in ninety seconds and we are back Dennis and Callahan. A Georgia couple lines -- perspective on this at some insight we clearly don't have is all the foremost experts on all this will Carol I'm sure you know. Senior writer for baseball prospectus dot com also a contributor to espn.com. A wells authored two books saving the pitcher and the one at that really brings his expertise on the subject to our topic today. That juice the real story of baseball's drug problems that about 2000 to help Carol good morning how are you my friend. -- find out we put some some handles on what it is we're hearing from the union what it is David Ortiz wants us to believe. What. Chemist. Patrick Arnold from Balco says is feasible that David Ortiz inclusion on baseball's list. Might have been caused by a steroid spikes supplement that was legal in 2003. Tell us what you know about. Nineteen. Nora and vidro but I also being that's supplement that might have. Made poppy an unwitting victim in the steel.

There's cup for ethnic Arabic and -- debt and buy. Steroids are anabolic. Steroid. To specific class of about it -- to be a generic term for any moment it. And tonight in -- is one of those albeit. You know are about Mark McGwire is in and -- and it's. We can all go to accountable he would be -- even wrote -- in things like -- even if and we don't know about a couple of players there you -- and keep your hero you know hop war by now. It was a much it will. Or couple things we have to realize about -- the it. But if they were at the he's much smaller and -- the -- they that need to pray. Actually. The wrought with many here -- The these 21 those ever expanding list. Is it getting tighter and tighter but it is. Simple it is audible equipment that or he's had. It in a supplement that was and yes absolutely -- likely. I don't know but the problem is. They view these -- they do -- these supplements run regulated. And at that -- aren't a lot of players that -- here it is got a lot work. The next year when the actual. Penalty at. And at that point I know -- in the approach a powerful.

Do you did you swatch Ortiz is press conference will with the when Michael -- and did you buy it to feel. Like a plausible explanation when you heard from him.

There are part of it that I bought the one part the team back and I just can't put together. Is how. Or is that he didn't know. Because we know that in September of 2000 war. With the union the players that he should do. About -- it be put back together by the you know. And let's be clear this list not only was supposed to be and how are confident but bottom. -- you know. After the season but he could even be put up. It was designed by -- they all of the players is absolutely not. There was never going to be actually. That could put together. Connect particular person who -- was able turns out the two companies there what awaited. The government have that we don't know what that list of about legally it certainly dripping out you're legally.

One thing we want we wondered about this morning well what we -- and Ortiz seemed pretty. A comfortable. Thrown out this explanation that might be the nineteen and drove. Is this tainted supplement what you wanna call it. Is there any chance that we'll find out in the coming days that indeed it was something that was when struggle that was -- Might we find out that it was something. Hardcore steroid and and and just blow their alibi out of the water.

If Leo I mean what we don't know is how badly that you put together. We don't know whether the actual supplement or ABC's meet so. That or these or equipment. His match up. That's something we still don't know because. We we don't -- what does it look like -- it's out there somewhere people. You know it's not things with the malware yet specialist Martin figured they'd say this person has opted -- this substance. On this day we don't really know what it would look like it it's entirely possible we could be out. That we could be out that it would. It. And we wouldn't have anyway check it's really tough. -- that you import it detected it anyway they're putting out all like what makes -- but they can't prove it anymore than they can get.

We're talking with that Will -- from baseball prospectus and and well I'm wondering your theories on. David Ortiz claims to a past fifteen drug test plus to a the World Baseball Classic -- for years pass them Clemens for years pass them. Of the following three things may -- the company snowball. I always at the that is possible if indeed we believe these guys were users with that special. Masking agents that allow them to do this with impunity was the timing of their of their their cycles -- wasn't just undetectable designer steroids that the Balco of the world. With a mere steroid makers the tests from Major League Baseball we're sophisticated enough to find that stuff.

It definitely doesn't seem to be the designer steroids because. -- without Rodriguez and Manny Ramirez. There are among those kind of player that could work the very bat -- go out I'm about red whoever. They want and it doesn't appear that -- eight they work. One thing that you have in common is that many Republicans very specifically -- and and -- Note that in January. Happened to go in with a brand into one are there and there was after all on the -- That a lot of right. It -- that if you start but it was there it's not back to back. The red Herring has these this is that the detection domestic needs. What happened as easily as the other I think it's easy it's the climate and especially with the discovery and Ramirez using these he. Loses how they are having it cycle try to round and -- out all of the I think for the testing program. That it means we might end up the have these in in the and you know the other thing we we did. Is with Josh Hamilton that equity have to read -- what negativity here testing program and it's pretty intense.

what it Manny do exactly well four -- for a whole -- tell us what many. Got -- doing.

He got caught with a truck -- and Oregon. Even worry. That it -- open. We. Dvds drug actually -- fertility treatments that are out of the thing without kick start the body's testosterone. Production. We all hopefully have testosterone. And that actually produced by these. But when you're putting and it should have stopped. Whether you're about or anabolic -- apple like. In. You buy because hey you know I don't need to predict it and there were shut down that's why we hear about it. Using something body and is headed down. We get up and not you. You have to start when it all. That he. She's was who read very effective. Here readily available drugs that. So that indication. That he wasn't trying to get pregnant with. -- To be patient on some form of steroids work that. But have a have yours as well. And it's typical you know. Like that somebody is smoking pot you know. That same date you're probably gonna. That in the --

Will this gray area that the union has now created for 104 whatever the number happens to be on this list of plausible denied building at all. I was taken -- it was legal back in 2003 but could start. Could could indicate it a positive test I'm wondering. On its own this nineteen and -- now but where where would that rate on the list of like hardcore serious steroids scale.

Oh very very low much like amnesty you know these ineffective but what if there -- you know -- they're. Are far more effective drugs they're far more effective in a policy that are eagle that we we you have to be careful here because it's -- the don't and understand. -- very clear that they're very very different people advance their drugs that are. Oh. They're also stand in Dayton. Obviously you can go and take these drugs -- repeat we have. And there are players in baseball who hate it under oath of -- That's okay do you'd have a medical leave for Europe there are three players we know ultimately all we're taking your testosterone. And Mike -- we mean is one of them and that is very quick it has figured if any it to function normally. There's a couple of the actual light thing yeah -- Those therapeutic use waivers are very normal. Of the most of you rocket that I all of these all right now an anabolic he'd.

What why didn't A-Rod run with this. Alibi that that that Ortiz used these nineteen. Nor random stream that I own. Excuse what why -- use that.

Go to -- white people. I think he just got caught I think he knew it I PP -- evidently -- I think -- the pattern it used digit. The connection regret not -- there is very quickly. And what you are able -- in a very -- in most corners of the world I just don't think it presented as well or -- Like the likable character that no longer. And we're really give him the benefit of the doubt we're not willing of them but he like an Alex Rodriguez for.

We'll teases -- Ortiz also present the guy correct. Yet apparently I don't personally.

Will Carroll senior writer for baseball prospectus it's two books -- check them -- the pitcher and the Jews the real story baseball's drug problem will as always we thank you for the information. And clarification on Leo very cloudy situation -- in Major League Baseball thanks will appreciate it. Well Carol at the Santelli and we will be right back.