Will Carroll, Baseball Prospectus

Our next guest is one of the preeminent writers in America. About the topic of performance enhancing drugs and athletics he's a senior writer for baseball prospectus dot com where he writes the under the -- column. -- he has also the author of the -- the real story of baseball's drug problems. Which was originally published in 2007 paperback cannot 2007. Joining us on the eighteenth -- hotline AT&T your world delivered as well Carol -- well how are you again. I -- you know it's quite. If you don't want the public doctor about baseball. Help me out I'm gonna -- quote from today's Boston Herald tell me if it's wrong. This is doctor Chris Geary and orthopedic surgeon dealing with sports medicine at the tufts Medical Center quoted in today's Boston Herald doctor Gary said quote. There's no reason from male athlete to take HCG. Other than masking that he's taking steroids on quote. Agree or disagree.

No reason is kind of strong but they're no good read and that's the problem. News about that is excited -- which is. Natural that after. The need for and that. It. The start is not. There isn't a good explanation I think the next. Four hours and 48 hours we need to hear something from -- we need be yourself and Scott Boras. We need some sort of explanation. The problem is I don't know that there is. I wrote there is one we're buying. I don't know whether we're headed down the Roger Clemens road --

All right well maybe we don't need a good explanation let's just play along here. What are some of the plausible reasons is is they're just won it in an an is that to hide. Performance enhancing drug use is that the only thing.

There's there's there's two recent. You know there. The the only who would reason would be that something was medically wrong. Which is it. And that that has stopped from what's being produced. You know you guys there of their four players in Major League Baseball now you guys have -- well. In Boston Mike -- that have a therapeutic use them -- Weaver that'll out there and -- tests. -- testicular cancer. Two other players -- I still don't know what the what what have we won't but we all understand when Mike bolt might be that. I don't know why Manny Ramirez. The other and it has the more interesting one here is that. Cut throat is to. For about two for quite simple ratio. -- after an FBI. And you use he'd seek to -- natural at Opteron is the ratio back in black and I'm guessing.

And it just to be clear he wouldn't be using this. If he wanted to be. Known as a sexual animal he wanted to be better in bed he wouldn't be doing this to improve his sexual performance.

No other bit better drugs that that the thing you know if there's. There's better drug for giving news that you restart it so it's not only that he was using something that was big and -- inspected. You know nobody is much more widely used because. It's simpler it's cheaper and it's more active. I think the reasoning with -- I was told the doctor you. Opening -- took a look at the clip unfortunately of last -- worry about it is at. This off. And bought. We can get away with -- and -- so. Aimed at that double double.

Well help me -- okay well because I I I made the point that I literally in 3 clicks this morning on the MLB players' association website. Came up with the joint drug agreement. And number 55 on the list of banned substances is gonna -- a pro opens parentheses LH NH CG. I have a hard time believing that this doctor found last year's list when it took me three clicks of the mouse to get this year's list.

Well again that's part of what I want to hear what you're women how. If it happened in January I don't know that this was updated albeit will be PA there not comment on anything any related. -- is. Honestly. I don't have a good explanation that. Your stupidity they look at the wrong it is the I don't have an explanation that. Depriving might happen but themselves. And so you're still looking at a drug that has no good medical.

Help me out with this when -- and I don't want to make people's eyes glaze over I don't want to get into the that specific you know clauses and and paragraphs but you point out that every player who's been who's been suspended. Or or has has now been found guilty. Has been found so under eight B of the players association joint drug testing policy. That many as one of two players who were found guilty under a separate clause what's the difference and who's the other player.

Yet there there are actually two players. The other one the first one what I thought yesterday. Which or -- wouldn't say -- Playing for. The brain that deal with ought be. Paperwork. -- age they. All of the paper trail -- on our people.

And he admitted his views and apparently angry. Atlantic rim.

Who also received -- It's the partners --

And did under the view. The difference is EP is simply it would ask.

One of the that's why you're out BG to its -- the other clauses in vehicle that's got caught. And it it's but not analytic -- it that we all. The -- areas that there were up. It appears there in earlier it tested positive.

He equated yet and yet at. The action that popped round is often talked approved. But ECG. Absolutely it did bank.

Early pregnancy test -- out there are all of the bat but. What it would have. What they initially get pregnant. It appears that -- is basically accepted. And took it -- a few rather than you mean the the actual.

You know with the cliche that we -- uses that the scientist or the outlaws. So to speak are always. Ahead of the law by a step or two. How far ahead of of the law are there. I'm in another words how far away from. Testing firm that testing for HGH on a consistent basis how far away from like getting some of the drugs that. Players can use now and that are not detect --

88. But as. There's a lot of arguments. Kind of unity. Audit says it's great. Is. It is not widely available. We have. I don't think -- well. The professional work other likely. The the other stuff. Most people wouldn't I wouldn't have been our basic stuff is. Literally what you're -- now. There are athletes using other things that -- what about the latest thing.

And the drug is being looked insulin it impacted each gate I -- people over over here on the radio shows or are about all you have is. I opened in ninety nobody's using it doesn't work for. I'm not -- worked for anybody. For performance enhancement. You know what they're using is it in Spain let like he wrote that I talked about I mean it it the if it. But it is by far the most used anabolic agent right. It's absolutely. It's easy it's cheap I get a prescription -- no question that and if we can be really work it out but is it built on top.

Is that really agency which is that about H TH it doesn't work for performance enhancing. Why not.

I don't really know. You know there are a lot of things wrote this was in the world. Which. You know like it or. I know it that it it I think what we're prop eight meters. There's that I worked with -- years ago when I was right -- That team to which -- heated up getting. It's scholarship because. The it would -- and pictured with it was is the UHH's. First it's expensive. Be very easy to track. -- we use for it aside from. Hold to form. Which have to travel with that and it's. Up at a refrigerated. A little local high school crap out of yourself because most offices. Have a -- has real world -- with how widespread. The age of the and -- Insurance is so it's a sponsor at this point they're based all you. And much simpler much easier like -- it much better.

How about football we have a player here Rodney Harrison you know home we on the on wholly. Does tore up his -- in in three chances. And he was caught with eight GH would that help him in his comeback.

Here are some studies out there that they they -- helped -- It's really mix -- again it's really been in retractable. Not taxable retractable. And so I think there's more. Psychological effect that real -- medical. But you're right there is the home discussion about each each human. And in that case I have questions over whether it warm it. We talked about like guys Tommy John surgery that -- It back or something like what -- your baby or -- you know it is pleased that ripped out my objection. I don't quite normal line of what. -- and that I think what you think will turn out with you know talk to doctor. -- And everything kept coming back. And -- you know that we have a small apparently will inject himself when we wrote. That performance enhancing I don't know I I don't know where that is I think after. All at some point here you.

It seems as though every time somebody gets busted for let's say do you why you know that the -- comment to us it's the first time I've ever done this I mean. If it defies logic for me that the only time Manny Ramirez ever delved into this he just was unlucky enough to get caught. Which is why -- have a hard time believing that he wasn't doing this for a little while.

Yeah I think he one of the more interesting things here is that we might have yet to help. We go back on the ballot McGwire wasn't have to. We can look -- public behavior as they've never tested positive. That. 2000. Read -- And in -- as -- that we that will. That's yours is here and a lot of Red Sox. You look at how they'd -- it on the those in the air and that you know and comfortable that there.

We only know one name molest and that's the guy was coming back to the yankees' lineup tonight is he your opinion. That at some point or another the other 103 names will be out there.

I have absolutely done that it. Obviously you now -- Reading through all her stuff I have an act that well. Especially here comments in your views I think at. I have worked at access to I don't know if the tour. I have my ideas. Getting involved in Ramirez a if it -- forward. Yeah I -- think they're coming out we shouldn't we should -- been -- it -- he could end up going all the way. -- whether it's going to be made. Were evident. Especially Barry Bonds. Fallen apart. It'll be really interesting but yes I do think that -- I don't think about it. People don't think we ever get the full list I think it -- and perhaps. We have Alex Rodriguez whether we did mean what it.

You know well this is why I disagree with you about the Red Sox fans in there discomfort. With some guys who won the 20142017. -- The most prominent example. Because other -- He had to go back in history you say are in recent history this is I guess this is just that. This is this is par for the course everybody has the guy or two words and indicate that the Yankees. Who have a little -- on.

Yeah I agree I don't think there anymore you'll even the other and probably less so -- between. They probably.

Cardinals again. The cardinals -- remembered there was a pretty short series.

You know the cardinals have had -- in the a lot of people raise doubt about -- well no evidence on that. You know Aaron who is the guy who. Heard rather. Obviously inspected. It to work that they're -- I'm not I'm not calling out of the Red Sox who were killed -- I think you know it was such special. Personal many people -- built simmons' column about it. I think sums up and be a lot of people out there of people that are going to have to explain it to their annual let Manny Ramirez -- in the and what the guy on.

As a member of the baseball writers' association of America if you don't have the vote now you will at some point during your career. Have the vote for the Hall of Fame how are you gonna sort through all the stuff.

You know and and Ramirez will be coming up about the time you get yours. I don't know for me there's a lot of -- In all of Indy wasn't perfect like was perfect for -- it's about performance on the view and that I know everybody it -- didn't. I'm gonna that it that way. I mean that. There's bonds and Roger Clemens about performance but I think it. On their -- and oh in the penalty should be an. Maybe not after that but --

Where and and where out where I disagree with you on this one is. If if you know for instance and Roger Clemens case that at least part of that performance was tainted. Unless you can tell how much of that performance was tainted I have a hard time justifying that. That entire legacy.

Yet that the that the thing is we don't know we don't know wind was easy it is really really difficult what I have a bigger problem we have.

He used outline agreement it go to Cooperstown. -- the giant apple bonds and Clemens and called arrow and now Manny Ramirez.

How do we explain some of the best players in the -- aren't. We have to have a steroid mean I think it's so much easier to. Put them in a performance and build it right there on the plaque and make it. Oracle.

And and let I agree with -- become leaning toward toward that point of view than the other one but here's the other side you can just say. They're not here because they cheated and they really cheated it is because then you're -- say. Well I heard that Gaylord Perry cheated. If you really have to explain the difference between Gaylord Perry and Barry Bonds then you put and the guys who you don't know about. And have the numbers like Frank Thomas has Hall of Fame numbers he's going to be yen. Does Jeff Bagwell is Jim -- Jim Thome probably doesn't work that well you know those are -- guys and they're not going to be the best guys of -- That's that's what we have here because of the -- to use.

Yeah it'll be it'll be interesting to see exactly how we sort this out and frankly I don't know I'm. Glad that there -- ten years before I have to make that is it going to be one of the biggest and but especially I think -- debate because. Even if you take away a large percentage. I think 20% off the -- with in which I think is probably worth that then there. He's still probably well.

He has will Carroll senior writer for baseball perspective all of the Jews the real story of baseball's drug problems. We always appreciate time thanks for -- analysts and I hope we get a chance to -- against him. -- at that that takes a lot of will Carroll joining us.