09-11-08 Dale and Holley Talk Sox

It's funny how psychology works. If you stay up that late your team wins it's invigorating and exciting in. Your feeling good about yourself in your life then your team and all that stuff if you step that late. Your team loses on a three run home run into the monster seats in the fourteenth inning you get a little depressed. We are angry or had yesterday. The loss two nights ago that the in the John Jonathan Papelbon blew the save you know pretty unusual occurrence but he did. A we -- that was devastating you know was disappointing but no big deal last night felt devastating.

Last night wasn't devastating on its own and neither and -- neither was the night before on its own but. Back to back yes to devastating losses if you put them together. Just in a vacuum not so much are you you felt like the night before you were. A few minutes away out all along they're situated -- just a few minutes away. From taking over first place again. From the Tampa bay rays and it is -- it seems strange. As they leave town and you have your off day today that there ahead by two and a half games. Because at the very least you felt like. You come out of this thing -- game and a half back but maybe. Even a game and a half up.

This just in Sports Radio Sports Radio was learned that the Tampa bay rays are pretty darn good they're good but. I don't want to give them all the credit for last night funny that was a discussion July at the post game yet again you can't plan and I don't want to take anything away from them they're good. There there's ice -- there like their manager quit day. They play the game the right now like everything about them. Boy did the Red Sox kick one away oh convert it I mean both both.

James stemming Tampa with -- runners in scoring position was that man that was a horrendous performance by them. But then if you look at the Red Sox the night before Jason Bay looks like he's going to be the hero is a home run barely clears the wall. And then last night he's over seven and it seemed to all of a sudden. That Tampa decided that we're not going to throw Jason -- any fastballs and we believe he will get himself out on breaking balls and I think that.

Happen and he did. A lot the last strike out especially. He dusty want to look at it on video because I mean the third strike that he swung. It seemed like it was a foot outside then and know almost at the ground. It was just it was such a frustrating night the whole night long in the tenth eleventh and twelfth innings for the Red Sox bottom of those innings. They had runners at first and second in the tenth inning it was first and second nobody out and York cleanup hitter is at the plate. And the one thing you hope he doesn't do is exactly what he does do. Which is grounded to the 643 double play in and -- Tampa bay -- not have you come to you since our our conversations -- I. Even when we were having the conversation. It was more frustration talking than anything else the the small ball advocates out there and they are legion I heard them in the first hour of this -- Dennis and Callahan and so. They yeah they were all talking about you know this is Terry Francona his fault he didn't bunt when he should of -- did. You know he --

Can't you can't -- that situation you can not bunt with here cleanup hitter. At the plate with runners on on first and second camp on the -- nobody out. Can ask Kevin Youkilis upon. Now when David Ortiz did it later in the game. And even do it on purpose you -- unimpeded on zone yet was trying to bunt for a break out it's not about -- hit on third base line was not trying to plays the -- And when people ask. Often. Why doesn't Ortiz -- more when the ship design while a couple things one is a power hitter that his game to. That's that is game I don't know exactly what anybody's gateway -- was not a game because. He was trying to bunt to third last night and he brought it back to the pitcher. So if you know how to bunt that's not going to happen I'm glad David Ortiz does not upon that that would supposed to do that I would he's paid.

You want David Ortiz swing and a big bat you want your cleanup hitter swinging the big bat the frustration is the one thing. Kevin Youkilis can't do in that situation is the one thing of course he did and I promise you nobody was more frustrated than he was. You know it's when you grounded to that double play that all the air gets let out of the balloon but they another chance first and second in the eleventh first and second in the twelfth. As bad as as Tampa bay was with runners in scoring position and they were awful. Last night the Red Sox -- a whole lot better.

Well I -- I am looking forward to hearing from the people who do places on the shoulders. Of Terry Francona because I was interest enemy I mean. We had one yesterday guys saying. Terry Francona is not a good manager because he never talks to players. During the game now there's one thing. You can criticize Francona for talking to people is now one of them. The talked a shadow of RD anybody talking to them all the time so I mean that's the one thing that people who don't like them. Criticize ward they think he's too much of a player's manager he's too touchy -- he's too close to these guys so. Is very interesting to hear someone say it doesn't talk to the players. But I do want to hear from people -- last night was Francona fault because it's obvious when you get into a game like that. It comes down to something you don't wanted to come down to and that is who's got the best. Were the best worst pitcher okay your worst is your worst better than our worst our worst is. Mike Timlin. -- worse.

Well -- was Trevor Taylor at that point I mean he was the guy. Who was on before they brought Troy Percival and now Percival was awful and loaded the bases. And apparently had some sort of a back issue I don't buy it I -- look I. They'd beat you our freedom to think that Lakers that was the first thing I thought when when they brought the trainer outweigh them -- first thought was there reliever isn't ready yet. And they want to make sure he can have -- much title.

and I thought I hit eight M I guess we had different thoughts on it I didn't by the injury what I bought was Joe Madden didn't want to embarrass them. I thought that's why the trainer came out hey look. I'm going to give you an out Troy. Everybody can see this the Tampa media that voracious. Very intense Tampa meeting both of them doctor come out and and now they won't say. What's going on Troy you were pulled because you were ineffective. Those say you pulled because you're hurt right and it makes Hamlet batters I'd never I never bought that he was going through it he could read his lips he is and -- for.

I'm -- animal Cambodia project. Well it was an analyst the frustration is is for everybody it's Terry I would shoot the breeze before the that we take pregame -- And you know he says if it's on the work you -- now I'm at the point he was making. On my point and want take credit for he said yeah if you try something that works are written here genius if you try something and it doesn't work you know you're a dummy. And -- and you know it's all well and good to say he. Put timlin and and that position. Well -- about it from that your your alternatives to timlin at that point were Chris Smith Devern Hansack and David -- David Aardsma technically was activated at thrown fourteen pitchers the night before for lol they didn't want to use. Jonathan Papelbon you know technology out there upper body go near him. So your your alternatives to timlin in the fourteenth inning UN already gone through the relievers who you'd trust you've gone through all of it and it -- great okay.

Okay now that that's a fair point but now we're. At that point in the game where -- talked about. Your worst and -- bringing out your worst and hoping that your -- is not as bad as the other -- So you used the word trust. I don't trust to liked him. I trusted Mike Timlin Mike Timlin was great for the Boston Red Sox for a long time pretty good deal middle reliever not a lot of money. Can pitch a lot of innings. Has some closing experience if you're -- this is a few years ago -- can close a few games -- he -- be seventh inning guy for an eighth inning guy for you get along with most people on the team. That was a few years ago I don't trust him anymore I don't trust the performance that the personal. I don't think he can do the job anymore so now we have Mike Timlin we have Devern Hansack we have christmas and David Paul. And David -- Gillick how I look at David -- as a starter.

I'm I think those are the guys who were available to Terry Francona at that point in the and Devern Hansack can be wild we've seen him before like there are no great options I'm I'm not even trying to pretend that some other guy. Coming into the game would have meant a victory for the Boston Red Sox I don't know that. What I don't know is that what I've seen where I've seen Mike Timlin in the game I have a very sick fielding. It's it's nauseating I don't think he can do the job and what he does the job keeping me here when he does his job I'm surprised. He's at that point I only I don't think.

And had looked he would he would probably tell you that and he understands that. You know he's on the he's not only is he on the back nine he's walking up eighteen here you know happy he's on his way to the eighteenth green and and you know there's. Assuming that the Red Sox are in the playoffs and I still think that's going to be the case. I think there's the very real possibility Mike Timlin won't be on the playoff -- a kid they can't -- In fact I think there's the real possibility. Tim Wakefield won't be on the playoff roster. And I think that you know that's going to hurt again it's going to bother Terry Francona and and Theo Epstein if they have to do that again and and I think there's the possibility. Because you're you only want for starting pitchers. In -- do you want to have Tim Wakefield is one of the four starters when that means you know Jason Varitek going to be over there on the bench. If you bring Wakefield and out of the bullpen. You've got the exact same problem can -- tech kept the knuckleball. You know do you want to bring -- you know Tim Wakefield and yet the the only way you bring him in -- is for a clean and you'd never bring him in with runners on base and Varitek behind the plate because of the problems with catching it. I just think there's too many issues I I think that your playoff roster may Welby without both like to implement them like that.

Now you know how they say guys who look like cuts we have basis for radio. Probably true that it's accurate yeah okay numbers like these these numbers have a face for radio you want to hear -- this is ugly. Mike Timlin 2008. Entering. One run four tie games here the numbers. Eleven games. 864 ERA he pitched eight and a third innings. Fifteen hit that the third and eight runs all earned five walks. Four strikeouts. Two home runs. For reliever. -- pretty good body of work and it's it's repulsive. That's that's what I mean when I say when he does the job. I'm shocked because this is what I remember -- and that's in this goes. It starts in lots of lots of bad appearances an April which you can forget because it's the first month of the season technically and on the Red Sox starter mark this year. Talk about April 5 April 11 April 14 April 19 April 22 April Tony 38 that may seventeenth may 27 may 30 August 1. September -- So this is when he's out there and when he's not on the DL this is pretty much a story if he goes into a game. It it is you're hoping you're just hoping that the other team does something stupid that they get themselves out. Because he needs help at this stage of his career he's had a great career -- career we think about it just in terms of his durability. And his ability to pitch season after season but it's it's over.

He's now had more. Relief appearances. Than any. Tied with canticle for the most. Relief appearances of any right handed pitcher in the history of the game -- last night was the 1050. Relief appearance of Mike Timlin illustrious career he's got world championship rings both in Toronto and in Boston. He east had you know a wonderful career. Now right now as I said he's he's walking up the eighteenth fairway you know he's tipping his cap to the crowd as he's approaching the eighteenth green.

Now with that said I think it's too simplistic to say. Mike Timlin you you you're growing the sports. It --

Because as I as -- pointed out they had chant -- there's an attempt were allowed eleventh record twelfth. I mean there are lots of opportunity -- wait too simplistic. To blame this thing on Mike Timlin wait too simplistic. You know as frustrating as it is. I I and I said this to you earlier this morning we talk I gotta be honest with. He looked shocked when the Pena ball left the park I was surprised when it left the park I really watts. -- it and and I just watched that on sports and they just showed again I heard timlin talking about it after the game. He said you know you put the ball. Down and away on the black. Left handed hitter you're telling him to beat me you've got to go the other way with it he didn't and he did and I well I I just watched the pitch again. Because when I heard timlin talking about on the post game last night. I thought maybe the pitch wasn't as good as you've bought -- It was good pitch well or know wasn't it wasn't quite eat yet he can't I mean there are times when a guy's going to hit it. He put it on the black up the knees on the outside of the plate I don't know where you got to.

It I'm saying this. The Red Sox didn't have -- left handers to go to didn't have anybody to match up. With Carlos Pena who is a home run hitter if nothing else the home run hitter he's a great average -- But if he connects with the ball it's probably going to go out of the park that's what he does. To have Mike Timlin going up against the home run hitter and Mike Timlin has not left handed in my timlin does not have a good season. And feel good about it anyway and the second point is sure. I understand the logic you have to go the other way with it. Here's a good -- got to keep got his we will let the here's the thing is it's the other way.

At Fenway Park. I mean we're talking about 300 just over 300 feet it's not like it's not like we're at a place where it's 375. And Apollo rallies.

Here's where I disagree with a 3 pitch to. Akinori one more. And he -- to his credit was swinging away on three you know -- a fastball right down the heart of the plate. Timlin bought three you know I'm just going to pull one over here anyone Mora made him about it you know that you had Baldelli with a solid single. Now -- of the pitches that bothered me the pitch that Pena hit was a pitcher's pitch he got -- the want to put the bat on the ball and put it out. It was a good pitch by timlin the the other guy beat them.

Well listen would bill I think. And there there are many reasons I wasn't surprised that the ball left the park. In you just mentioned while Rocco Baldelli. Local guy good for him I'm glad you're healthy.

It was a bad series. He Rocco Baldelli just didn't look. He did what comfortable against the Red Sox four k's in the previous LK earlier game right series so he is struggling.

When Rocco Baldelli. Hits in any case and smashed it but he hit it pretty good.

So you've have solid single life yet so you got Baldelli on yet you more on and he got a home run hitter at the play. I I I thought. About the game was over.

I had a I had a harder time with the pitches to you want -- and Baldelli and I did to paying. I again if I'm Mike Timlin I put that pitch exactly where I was trying to put it. I put it on the black outside of the plate when I gonna put on the inside of the plate -- and Carlos Pena -- wheel house. He has battled joke about he can hit it out of any park including Yellowstone yeah the big strong man you'd put it in his wheel house is going to kill. If if you try to get the man out you gotta throw something up there he threw the right pitch Pena beat a moment unfortunately. And it was a little depressing last night you know people -- upset. But you want to talk about frustration go back to the top of the teh bottom of the tenth inning first and second nobody out you get not -- I mean you know the fourteen -- you you had runners on first and second in the tenth eleventh twelfth he didn't get it done. Yet the bases loaded nobody out in the fourteenth it up one run on the sacrifice -- but he thought they would win the game. The record back when Troy Percival haven't backed. That might well he didn't -- it as a manager at a point it was a joke but I agree and it was a great went to make great thank you very.