9-10-08 Will Carroll, Football Outsiders

Will Carroll is the author of two books saving the pitcher and the -- the real story of baseball's drug problems. He also writes injury related articles for baseball prospectus dot com SI dot com. And our body Erin shots is website football outsiders dot com using noted sports injury expert. And has joined us in the past and re joins us right now Willits -- Michael how aria. To a great that's already a it very well very. We got to a bunch of people ask you about but for obvious reasons we'll start right here in New England. We don't know exactly what's wrong with Tom Brady and I always feel like we should stress that you don't know exactly what's wrong I don't know exactly what's wrong. We believe he has a torn ACL there may be other things involved here that we don't know about. What's the long term prognosis for a healthy strapping 31 year old man with this kind of injury.

Well it's tough to help because you know he kind of have to assume. A couple different cases if it shut the eight the element that really unlikely. Given the information we know being able to multiple angles. I think -- Ethiopians you know maybe involvement of the this is the cartilage had between. I mean -- and let if -- that would ultimately -- try at which is one of the worst injury.

That's papacy he would come back from it and not come back from well.

Is it more difficult and long process that it on that well one. Which would put you know started at. -- easily work ethic -- it. I think even in the worst -- the and they -- We want to.

Does what you just described compared to what happened Carson Palmer when he was injured in January of 6.

Yet very comparable. Although only -- the -- you know he had. Pretty severe sprain of the M deal with mostly. Doctors are preparing and oh yeah they have their secondary support system there and only do it if you just.

The last.

But what concerns me and the what about it initially bought might have been to work I -- the first angle and I talked got mocked the and I thought it was the peace. -- That would much tougher to come back rob and wade I was -- he'd and they -- one that made it look like he went directly into the front of the and really hyper and it would would put the -- a significant stress that not one in the impacted there's no -- they're and I really hope I was wrong on that. Probably -- too quick judgment. On that but after that he should be able to come back with no problem you know the worst case scenario for use at quarterback. Is. The article.

But we have such a hard time separating its performance from his injury because apartment off. That we -- back.

Think this is somewhere between homer and hope pepper which put him right about where Donovan McNabb.

Old when we talk about running backs and injuries usually people say. They'll return to there explosives -- a year after. The comeback. Quarterbacks and the quarterbacks come back immediately from what you've seen.

Well yeah I think you'd have to take it in the context what kind of player they know what they're -- To do you know if it was big guns we have a minor injury now -- a major psychological. Well. That's not a heck of a lot more that was Michael Vick. Kurt are very -- the mobile quarterback to heal up were concerned about it is taken out what they're doing. Tom Brady well maybe a little bit more mobile than Bledsoe. Not by much what it is not a part of his game you don't have to worry about that when he needs it would make quick 57 step drop. And then approachable and we shouldn't be that involved there.

One of the things there was the Boston Globe article about this and and there were some medical expert X experts talking about something I've never -- Called rehabilitation. Where they actually have a patient work on strengthening the -- both for the surgery have you heard of us.

Yes it is very very common -- I remember going all the way back -- my own shoulder surgery in 1991. Where I was ready Abbott by. A record -- toward in the you'd have reattached. And I have to wait six weeks they have go to rehabilitation and it was that -- read ability. Which one he would make sure everything else the things that -- the image. Are strong and you're going to be it would come back that you know the difference in surgical techniques art that it. You know we're using different substances to -- Normally using the at least in this from a cadaver. To be built the eight you know he. -- park to homer at coming back with finding out that the what they've been built to eat -- we're old woman. Hercules and it's been healed. In the -- driver. They actually wasted and found out that he is on and -- and it really bothered to look like out. But he added I need to happen -- In the back to work. But when you think about these things we think about the recap the rehab strengthening -- view it's pretty amazing that we get these guys back.

How about preventing. An injury is there anything and I'm sure lots of athletes have thought about this especially football players. They see guys going out like Tom Brady and Rodney Harrison and now Shawne Merriman they say what can I do to prevent this is there any type of device second -- is that even possible.

Absolutely need brick. They were doing and keeping the race.

You'd see some of these guys putting them together constructed them out of carbon fiber you'd think they're -- read our airplanes rather than in the parade. We. Our on Sunday night Pete in nineteen back -- he's wearing a giant cheap rate well you know is not that they have. Ability problems with he would need like where that kind.

And go back a peep hole and oh he's one that's more like -- woke up -- time out of the air and decided he would start wearing it. One where of one. Apparently fears only on the left side of the body. But when you talk about all of I'm in the happy problems especially defensive linemen and quarterbacks. These were worthy accidental bowling up. I don't know of anybody that we would still debating whether or not a dirty hit but I don't think it was.

But it's just the mere fact that that could happen. I think will quarterbacks if not all quarterbacks.

not just that the pro level but that is about it.

What's funny should say that because of one of the things I heard on on the show before hours today. Is that -- Boston College. Their quarterbacks are required. To wear a knee brace on their left leg. Their front leg not necessarily their push off like if they were left handed quarterbacks it would be on their right -- because that's the leg to expose the exact same way Tom Brady's was exposed.

Gap at that that makes perfect. I did you know maybe that's why Manning does that -- makes perfect sense to.

We had another key player in the National Football League try to avoid knee surgery and finally decide after playing in a game over the weekend he couldn't avoid it. -- think there was any way on God's green earth Shawne Merriman was going to be able to play an NFL season with what he apparently had wrong with --

You know guys I'm not a doctor -- went on. But I talked to a lot of guys that all. Merriman. Spoke about all of them like I what I used in the doctor shopping there -- serious problems going on. But when I put doctor Jim Andrews so you can play. Now we don't know what happened in that game swelling and -- he's going through but yeah I do think you can make it a lot longer than we.

But but you say Jim Andrews and most people and everybody knows -- managers and everyone respects them. But it makes me a little nervous will win. When you see Shawne Merriman goes for a fourth opinion is that normal to be seeking for opinions on the surgery.

Two with a lot. You know it's whatever situation we for the I have number baseball -- you do. He went around for everybody saying. -- the rehab in the record shop I need a concert. And over -- people use your Wickman one.

Not -- so much that we need surgery -- scrambling around and he was convinced he would pitch. And finally Jim Evans said you know if you have a look around a comedy duo might as well as go ahead and do it and -- did it two years later he's back in the -- like. It as -- and football but not on press.

I want to switch sports for a moment because you wrote about this on SI dot com and its Josh -- it's situation. He will pitch his second game tonight since being shot down -- a great in his first game since being shut down but to had a tidbit on SI dot com. I never knew. And that's that John Farrell had Tommy John surgery.

Yeah I I never knew that I there and it would interest in him because I was trying to think of all the other pitching coaches thing. You know how many have had a concert company understand the process. And it and I. You know when I heard that John Farrell it. It was talking to back it. A lot like what I it just struck me -- like how we looked pretty neat and we take John surgery so for granted an element in the baseball. Nothing. Now a lot of people realize it is you know how many guys would come -- surgery -- all of them now.

Now -- I don't hear. Not a single got to -- again.

1 yet now we're going to help one because I'm small Alley you can retire from. In the other one Mariano Rivera -- one of those two guys is probably in the in the the first pitcher in there and left found that out early last year that just done it is just like.

Eight somebody pitchers having it but it'd been so long that we would have wondered by now but unfortunately Tommy John not and there are other cities or --

Medical --

But shouldn't get a spot nor cookies. And I. Tommy Tommy John deserved something don't you think.

Now we have I think frank till the doctor that did the operation there you go in for all his medical. They it would look at. The rotations around the country. All of baseball. Frank Jobe had been -- that operation. Jimmy entry wasn't around with now. Would would. People like about expansion hurting but would be like you guys who have let their problem when -- sure.

See we said this a month or so ago when Joba Chamberlain went to see doctor James Andrews. Any time in Europe pitcher in the major leagues and your name is in the same sentence with -- doctor James Andrews it's not a good thing. And and Josh Beckett went to see doctor James Andrews in West Bank and this is not a good thing but it seemed to be. Nothing more than then you know a confidence booster for Beckett that figure okay here everything's all right and it was actually a very good thing for the Red Sox.

Absolutely I I I think you know get a get a bad rap a little bit people here that relic though I don't know the season's over but.

that I would think hey you know he's the doctor just like anybody else and every patient. Different but I think the thing is that. He's really -- is one of those guys on the level of the superstar athlete. And for whatever reason he's able to act with that and -- boo him because you know I. Use him as one of their own. I think it was the opposite we thought that they deeper we that again with Josh Beckett -- sometime they just need be accurate about it is now before they'd think.

Oh well that's true -- poker player like her pitching coach and hurt the team doctor but when Jim that the what --

I also think there's something to the fact that if if the orthopedic surgeon at your local hospital. Took a look at MRIs and X rays of Josh Beckett elbow or shoulder he'd thank you eight banked. Where a guy like James Andrews knows the -- to hear that goes into this can look at Josh Beckett it's X rays and MRIs and say look. It looks like real good pitchers on you know elbows and shoulders look it's okay.

Exactly and you know MRIs ever went into the on the gold standard they really are -- the the physical we're learning with Billy Wagner you know he had -- in his elbow and forearm. Gosh package off every Olympic and --

because all the collateral ligament don't get back in it's -- both wearing down process that this was the week on.

Back is that the monsters to feel.

Well we always appreciate the expertise. Hopefully. Where at the at that nicer end of the Brady spectrum and nobody year from now we can seem out -- thrown footballs again.

Exactly -- talk about the I'm -- about how it rehab process.

Okay well thanks thanks I'll take care will Carroll sports injury expert for baseball prospectus dot com SI dot com. -- and our body errant shots -- website football outsiders dot com.