Will Carroll, Baseball Perspectus

Our first guest of the day is a guy who's been on this program and on this station on a number of occasions in the past he writes regularly for baseball prospectus dot com on. Injury related athletic injury related matters he has written in my opinion one of the definitive works. On the use of performance enhancing drugs in athletics called the Jews. The real story of baseball's drug problems. -- he occasionally has written for. A football outsiders dot com as well as he did last week prior to the division championship by divisional round of about the playoffs and will Carroll joins us on the line right now -- well I don't.

I'm doin' that well I'm in Indianapolis so I welcome that because.

And after that -- Last is some some baseballs up and a few minutes we'll start with the football because that's. Where were at at this point based on your extensive knowledge of athletic injuries and what players can do -- not do given the circumstances they're faced with. What kind of shape but the chargers going to be in coming into this weekend here at July.

They're pretty beaten up I mean it's not just the obvious thing you'd have come out teams we have with both Indianapolis and New England this year -- batter. These are two very physical team that. Really put a hurting on people would you take the -- from guys like Antoine but they -- Bob -- You it might be little guys they put -- big hits and it goes beyond -- goes beyond rivers because you have a home and that Carolina has a little bit beat up.

I gotta tell you just the notion of dislocating my big -- gives me the creeps I don't know how you go out and I give Antonio Gates all the credit in the world. Couple shots in the -- or not I don't know how we do when I'm performed as well as he did last weekend.

Yeah it's pretty impressive book opens we've that's. Difficult is the activities out there in eighty you know or I don't know how he can do with all that pain what what upbeat feeling there's simply have to that. It's really as simple as that yet nerve block -- that put fuel tank underneath -- but he could still push off and he didn't. Extremely well give them credit for a -- that quickly. Have a feeling they gave it to a earlier in the week to let him know how it was going to feel but there's absolutely no reason -- Can't do that again as he put himself at risk absolutely that he any pain.

Yeah but it was -- also obvious that you know with the numbness at that and the put whenever that he he was not the same player usually is -- past.

Now I think I think that you would normally today -- stated that. He over Brandon a lot of -- with his name calling you yet addictive uptight he's certainly an improvement over that in most situations now obviously there using. That mean you just said in the blocking situation better anyway. So taking what you have been using the most of it make sure that you can now put your best team out there in most situations I think it is a very good job of that game.

Actually you know what the idea of blocking brings up a fourth guy who didn't ask about and he was supposed to be back last week and wasn't and that is Lorenzo Neal before.

Obviously we can't expect him back you know he was actually he had coming back had broken leg just one month afterwards. If you look that's not a miracle comeback. But the problem once he just wasn't ready you know the pretty big -- to be in whip and -- Justin you'll cope with them. You know this is what coaches have to do -- look at their players -- they. You know 75% of Lorenzo -- better than a 100% panicked in big but it was better looks pretty good. Certainly I was one up some of the smaller got -- right -- on the front.

Much like the patriots the chargers told us exactly what the results of Ladainian Tomlinson MRI -- yesterday. Says with tongue firmly in cheek tell us what the ramifications are of playing a week after suffering a hyper extended --

Well you don't really matters. Function you know what you look at hyper extension of any took pretty good shot audience haven't but he never gone. They pick up basketball and god needed with somebody they know the pain he. Yet you think you're gonna die you think you just as a leg amputated and twenty minutes -- you -- well it was well that -- and that they were worried about the swelling but how. Well property -- the but by the end the game people but I talked to on the sidelines that you know he yet that. Is pamphlet rolled up there -- there'd be in the whip which is something I think more players to nap look at your Alec with -- out there without the pats. I wonder -- little bit let alone that races but all of -- story. Really I think he's going to be about 9500% these kind of -- clear up very very quickly. If they're not area and -- what you look here's.

Philip Rivers suffered an injury to his healthy -- which is a way of saying he's had -- issues on the left knee this was now a knee injury on the right knee it it appears that the likelihood of him being anywhere near under percent are much less this weekend.

Yet definitely the other -- all of these are problematic but the question is the new injury -- periods what he topic hit in -- if we have opposite field the first time at the as the admiral Albert safe and the trying to put behind them holding what looked like he buried band -- break now he won't braces on both and it appeared that the great save him from a pretty devastated. The question is how -- city I'm told that it was his choice. Not go back out on the field and that. It's the very heated discussion between and the problem and at one point that he just didn't feel he was going to be ready to go because he had -- already limping what do you want for. Was the quote so. I'm not sure this one so much injury as a desire problem for rivers.

I was gonna -- doesn't that fly in the face of what rivers said publicly which is that you know that was kind of the coach's decision and he didn't want to win and disrupt what Billy Volek had going. It sounds as though the public story in the private story may be different.

Yeah absolutely yeah I had a guy down on the sidelines during the game was telling me in the the discussed got pretty heated completely incompetent and it was very clear that it was that -- elected.

Patriots apparently are as they always seem to be. Reasonably healthy going into this weekend.

Yet I mean we gotta worry about Tom Brady got older additional look at it now long gone now of all the things this guy's head because Rabin put up with them. -- he has in his life the talented -- spaces in life if shoulder might just switch it over the edge of the patriots look pretty good they've had. Because -- up they're ready to go and that these these certainly didn't have a problem last week he about it game Barry LP. And I just can't see the chargers stopping that again but in the --

Although there is one do you know what's up with Ellis Hobbs.

I know that that was one thing I've been out trying to find out information on them a little bit easier than getting information on classified intelligence from the government but not much -- cubs actually -- situation the played I think they opted out in nickel back and it's a situation where again I think it's a coaching decision it you know he's a little hobbled it flow and there's 8590% of -- equal under the and his replacement.

Right -- especially when they were doing more of that we were talking before you came on that they were giving lots of cushions you know you don't need to get right up there and so random game works for them.

Absolutely it's one of those situations where it's not only be injury but the context the injury hurt him. Very very.

Looking at the NFC championship game this weekend giving all due credit to the giants for a remarkable playoff run so far. They're going to have to go to Lambeau this weekend severely depleted in the secondary I think.

Yeah that's definitely a concern though it's certainly didn't bother them against what true that it. Some trouble with. Perillo and Patrick -- within whatever left of that Perry went out there I think they'll be back another week. To try to kill some of these guys if see what they do in -- you know what I think you always look at guys leg injury. Laying aren't bad services whether -- that -- with no rain and I think the weather can be a major concern going -- that we have here.

Is Plaxico Burress -- similar stuff with a torn ligament that he has in his ankle.

And he replied as. There's been a lot of rumors and whispered I mean anything but something happened there about fifteen where something got. A lot better -- and back and before with a balanced something whether there injecting some sort of miracle here weathered. Finally decided in -- a lot of players -- very resistant to the idea of taking painkillers received more more than publicly -- used to be that didn't help much actually develop these help which you know will be -- be given -- back. And where -- is the team would is on the I have not spoken people saw. Friday night lights I can tell you that was very very true that the cycle doctors were given -- Dirty little secret of the NFL and what Plaxico Burress has Dillon is equivalent at this.

Perhaps we should check the color of his socks.

You yet that we.

We're talking with will Carroll one of the best sports injury reporters in the country and also the author of the -- the real story of baseball's drug problems you are sitting here watching the same congressional hearings that we are watching -- and -- while it's how we're watching that but before I had to put it on -- were you shocked as I was about the hot information.

Yeah it was a little surprising Lee that this had to come out before it certainly. Up that they could surprise you know this whole eat twelve Spain is something that. Because you know what Roger Clemens said that on sixty minutes I was like oh the the Palmeiro defense that. On welcome back a long way Johnny pesky of all people like it pretty regular repeat well did you think anybody wants that broke him -- with the other and Palmeiro.

Well and in fact when when you heard about some of the things that that Clemens was dull alleging. The beat twelve and lied McCain now light came as what my dentist uses when he's going to you know -- might tooth. But unless you injected that directly into would joint what good would it do yet.

I'm not the one -- you have to remember here is. First off Brian backe is not an athletic trainer personal trainer and actually the question -- vacation back. Yeah actually -- certification an athletic trainer would never. Ever put an injection -- player whether called for not that that's the province of the medical position what you have to look at here is what Roger Clemens have problems with whom the Clement is telling the truth that he felt like in injection into -- and as well on the -- he's been and by the pop. -- I think that having the problem and at least 2001 and if it is true earlier this answered with a history attached -- at where would you put the injection -- but did make some level of that.

It would do at least in it would at least -- Part of the things he's had issues --

You know I thought that the doctors about -- smell like oh yeah like if that's possible I wouldn't -- it but I can see some stupid personal trainer doing it.

Well and and again not wanting to -- here on Roger Clemens but but I do have to add this part of it we got word last week from Mac -- that one of the things he told investigators. Was that Clemens suffered an abscess in the area of where the injection was done and and might. Rudimentary knowledge of this is that that almost would never happen with B twelve or -- game. But it does sometimes happen with steroid injection.

Yeah and that was the clear replicate. You know it is accepted an inspection. -- the site where it swelled up extremely painful was extremely noticeable things that actually was implying you know that. It was likely steroids as it does happen. Use the larger -- people around goes deeper than. And the second -- that other people would have noticed. And Tommy Craig who was. Trainer at the time has pockets of people and doesn't. And I don't like you indicated that clearly the medical records available which is have those Clemens should be able to make those available. I think that is the question -- people would clear up pretty quickly.

It seems to me as I was listening to the initial comments from Waxman and Davis and they even mentioned Stan Conte and Brian's -- I couldn't helpful wonder why wouldn't you call Stan -- him.

Good question you know I -- impact -- respect in the he's always been very open and honest about the problem as part would be. The problem is an and there are a couple of of the congressman David had a really important. And a lot of people an athletic trainer as differentiated from my personal. Athletic trainers and medical professional doctor operating under a doctor's orders as such they essentially and are subject to simple law. They can't do there's there's the equivalent of occupation privileges there and let the player as though we can't talk about that situation.

So even if they brought Conte and there'd be little he could set. Very little although he apparently set enough that it Mitchell included it in his report.

Absolutely I mean that that was certainly a situation -- lot of people heard about unfortunately it reflects rather William Bryant Fabian and the end let the giants organization. But it's -- situation it is unfortunately not that uncommon I doubt it's in with -- one other at.

Do you think this ever gets the point worse AB and gets. Sort of morally forced out of his job because he looks like such a bad --

Now though I mean you'd think out of it would of them catalogue of a but no no I mean. -- you know Eric Gagne in the Mike Cameron are both getting signing this week in Milwaukee that's not to think Milwaukee's bad is. They are both. Brian Roberts is about -- trade for you know unless you. Who are breaking records unless you're in the game that everybody knows like Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens.

True although it is easier to scapegoat and executive and a player because he's the executive does not. Do you -- quite as visual evidence of helping you win.

Oh absolutely one of the more interesting thing I heard today is you know all of these people that you know George Mitchell pop. He's settled a lot of them he admitted that other the first ever heard of it and frankly didn't believe that it frankly I would agree with him in this. And if those people came in and were part of copper up. I'm a cover up the worst crime and I would not be opposed to some of those people who knew that.

As tight as I watch this whole thing and as I read the Mitchell report of the I believe 89 players who were named in the report as near as I can tell only three so far have denied. The allegations Brendan Donnelly the former Red Sox pitcher denied using performance enhancing drugs. I'm David justice has denied it rather vociferously and not Clements am I missing anyone has anyone else of the 89 denied it.

You know. About 45 of those I don't even know there'll -- there were a lot of people format if that I didn't even remember playing again I I haven't heard one denies it but again unless -- weapons -- on the air.

And and quite honestly that the single biggest blow to clemens' case in my opinion. Was when Andy -- acknowledged that you have Brian Mac in the did inject me a couple of times.

Hi Ed Ed this surprised me you know first off -- does have a lot of credibility back I'm sure that Roger Clemens is going to -- it more interesting thing -- is and it. It was on indeed Pettit was one of the ones that hired private investigators that -- recording the calls with Brian back. I don't understand I don't know whether it be petted his views retracting it. Statement which which really I don't know why he's involvement and know in Rogers ranch and still friends as far as we can -- they do -- any. Rainy and Eric which might have something it was that he has hired his own helpful for the hearings that'll be -- happening in early February now I just don't understand it because it's certainly did alter back.

At this point based on on what they're saying. They are looking and in -- have asked the Justice Department to investigate whether Miguel Tejada lied before congress. They they also said this morning Waxman said in his opening comments that it is apparent that Raphael Palmeiro lied before congress. If they throw out at least the implied threat that they're going to prosecute. Perjury charges before congress whoever appears at those February hearings have got to be doing so with their hearts pound.

I have the talent true. They're telling the truth -- says that certainly going to be the issue if you know there there's no question about it unit prime -- have asked for immunity in that fine work on the we don't know whether Clement have we don't know whether any other players going to I would certainly like -- some other players up there obviously players in the front. Upbeat though if they're quite -- Jeff prosecution Miguel I don't think he'll beat all of certainly a tough situation because you know what I -- We don't know all the statements because they have made public. If you lied then he deserves some punishment and certainly one and keep on him there. With all -- it's. Top because he said I'd never use steroids and just a couple of months later fooled me. Had in me pretty tough for anybody believe that it would put him a B twelve injections without his knowledge. The thing is he would never tested positive before because there weren't positive. Well one out 2000 -- you know Beckett can definitely the first drug tests in the baseball it's a -- Most economists that would both be -- way to put it together. Except -- what -- Yet the government -- both those couple. In of those lists that they could put together could identify which has that. But elected not publish it because of the agreement between Major League Baseball players association that it should be enough. There -- six players out there that have to worry about that with.

Finally before we let you go and and again. As we watch all of this stuff on folded it fascinates all of us as how they're going to proceed from this point. But the bottom line here is that from baseball's perspective from major league baseball's perspective it seems like Mitchell. And Selig are working -- purposes. I think Mitchell wants them to not punish past defenders in back grant immunity if you have to do to get information to move forward. Selig seems to at least pulled out the possibility that he wants to punish some of these people in the past.

Yeah not not get that he is actively investigating -- players for possible suspension and now we don't know which fifty. Certainly you'd asked all the duke would be one yeah certainly that that's what it's gotta be per player. If you department of -- retired the ten game suspension for David justice is going to do a whole lot I -- I think they should've said hey we couldn't get all of that here the things that we need to do in the future. -- for Mark McGwire and it shouldn't be here to talk about the past beat your make sure it ever happen. Baseball has done it. Credible job of really getting at the heart of the problem putting the here in the people last year. To guide to in all of Major League Baseball has -- Now gathers drug to be. -- the only way to beat the system. But we park from -- night basic. Down to just matter of four year you're gonna have two guys on the field against the patriots this week this test positive for steroids the NFL has done one. What baseball the last decade without the problem why -- develop their wife Shawne Merriman is being called absolutely beyond.

and I just thought of one final question Howard Bryant writing on espn.com has also written a book about steroid usage in baseball. He acknowledged on the website. That he was asked by George Mitchell to commit and talk to me that he declined the invitation where you ever asked. Aren't we appreciate my time well thanks very much ice -- care that is so will Carroll baseball prospectus. Right sometimes for football outsiders dot com has written a book called. The -- the real story of baseball's drug problems